Whats in a name

[LilBB]

Im new to feminism after stumbling across this part of the forum. I have been reading up on all things feminist. Whilst its clear that all feminists have differing views one thing I keep coming across is how taking your husbands name in marriage is frowned upon. I took my husbands name. Not because I felt I should but because I hated my maiden name. It reminded of my father who I have not spoken to in many years. I also wanted us to have a family name (tbh if I liked my maiden name I possibly would have suggested us both changing to that, although I'm unsure if a man can take his wifes name without changing it by deed poll?). I must confess I hate it when we have letters that say Mr & Mrs His Initial Our Surname. Just because we are married does not make me less important or less of a person. We are equal with our own names so why refer to us just as his? Why can't it be Mrs & Mr???

Anyway what are peoples views on this? Can a feminist take her husbands surname?

(Also if anyone could recommend a book that would give me a good overview/history of feminism I would appreciate it)

I'd like to be involved in a discussion on this too.

I took my husband's name because it was more important to me to have a family name than keep my own name. I can't deny that I'm angry that my husband refused to change his name to mine - I think he probably would think differently about it now than he did then. I now wish I'd known and understood enough to insist that we both change our names to something completely new, if he didn't want to take mine, but it's done now.

I also hate being referred to as Mrs his-initial surname but it rarely happens, I find (except for when my real dad sends me letters .

I don't think any one action precludes someone from being a feminist. For me there aren't that many rules about being a feminist really. If you think that women are kept down, and they shouldn't be, and you want to do something to change it, that's it really, whether your name's Mrs Desmond O'Loofah or Emmeline Greer.

But I do think in terms of acts, taking your husband's name is not a feminist act. It perpetuates the tradition which has its roots in the ownership of women by men. And the more women continue to do it, the more men expect their wives to do it, and the harder it is for other women to retain their names (just their own names fgs) on marriage.

I don't know, I've always thought that as our names are usually our fathers' names, it's still not really "liberated" to cling on to those either.

We probably need something like X, like the Nation of ISlam had, to be really neutral

A very good point HerBeatitude and as I didn't like my maiden name (fathers name) it was the lesser of two evils to change to DH - though his wasn't that much better. His is double barrelled so joining our names would have been ridiculous so not an option either. I don't feel defeminated (is that the opposite to emasculated?) in taking his name as i wanted any children we may have (and we have now) to have the same name and be a family.

If your mother and father were enlightened and created a new surname when they married, either by double-barrelling or otherwise, how is it not liberated to keep that name yourself?

I don't feel attached to my surname. It is my stepdad's surname, and I would be perfectly happy to take DP's surname if we married. It would be nice to have a family name, in my opinion.

I would like it if couples chose whichever name sounded nicest, rather than automatically taking the man' surname, but currently society (the banks, passports, people's opinions, etc) make it easier for the woman to change her name.

I know of a couple who both changed their name upon getting married, but only because they didn't want to inflict the name Glasscock on their children :o

I think "what's in a name" is exactly right. I didn't change my name because it was my name so why would I - but that was my choice. Other women I know who are just as feminist did change their name, because, in their words, they felt comfortable enough in their identity not to need to tie it to a particular name.

Both valid points of view, I don't think their implication is that I am not secure enough in my identity to change my name.

The family issue again - perfectly understandable point of view. For me, as my mum remarried when I was 7, surname has never been an issue in terms of defining family.

People make their own choices. As with many issues, I wish it was as acceptable for a man to take his wife's surname as vice versa (and neither) - that seems to me to be the heart of feminism.

Oh, and I like DP better than I like the previous bestowers of my current surname :o

It isn't not liberated. Obviously, it'[s only not particularly liberated to hold on to your father's (and grandfather's and great grandfather's etc. name)

Unless you're in Iceland of course. Where it's not necessarily the name of your male ancestors that counts.

Although I'm not sure, I think people changed their names probably more frequently in the past - to pay a compliment to a relative they were hoping to inherit for example, or to thank the person who had left them a legacy. I think Florence Nightingale's father changed the family name when a female relative demanded he did if he wanted to be the chief beneficiary of her will.

I should add, as I've said before on MN, I have a friend who took the first two letters of her surname, first two letters of his, added 'us' to signify union and made a whole new surname. If DH and I had done that our surname would be Pinuus.

Oddly we decided against this option

I didn't know that about Malcolm X.

Go Malcolm. I like him even more now.

i haven't taken my husband's name but i think i might when we have children.

but in the meantime i've so far had NO problems at all. i even paid a check into the bank this week that was made out to myfirstname husbandssurname and just showed my wedding certificate said i wasn't taking that name and nobody batted an eyelid.

TA - I agree in a sense. I didn't particularly like my surname, but I liked the fact it had an interesting history. I don't particularly like DH's surname either. I'm more irritated that he woulnd't change his because it would feel wrong - it was the wrong reason IMO.

Yes, because it felt wrong for him, but was fine for you to do FB, because good old 'tradition' is on his side.

TBH I think the fact that my surname is my father's surname (it's a bit more complicated than that, but for the sake of argument, say it's his surname) is irrelevant to my choice whether to change my name or not. It's my name now and I see it as either:

a) I keep my name, and then have at least the option of passing name onto my children

or

b) I take future husband's name, and abandon all claim to pass on my name to future children.

After all, it's my father's name, but for future DDs it will be their MOTHER's name, and if I had given it up on marriage, then they would be looking at receiving their father's, and so the cycle would continue.

Basically, you can't change the past of a name of it's heritage, but you can change it's future IYSWIM

should have been or its heritage.

It doesn't matter if your name is your father's. If it's the name you were given, it's yours too now. People don't tend to say that grooms should change their names on marriage because it's 'only their father's name'. It's like noses. I have my dad's nose, but it's still my nose too! I'm not going to get plastic surgery to get a nose like my partner's, or like my mother's for that matter! I already have a perfectly good nose, and like everyone, I have to inheirit my nose from somewhere. The same goes for surnames.

Anyway, I don't think a woman should take her husband's name. It's supporting the patriarchy. If we want to believe that families come in many shapes and don't have to be headed by a man then we shouldn't orient our own families that way. How can we say the world shouldn't be run by men if we symbolically let men run our personal worlds?

All this talk of "having a family name" is nonsense. You do have a family name. You've taken at least part of your surname from your parents, right? So your name represents your first family, just like your husband's represents his. To take my husband's name would mean that his parents were my family but mine weren't. I don't believe in allowing families to become male-dominated in this way.

I did once know a woman who got divorced but kept her married name.

"It's the only thing the fucker ever gave me" was her reason.

A friend of mine had not had contact with his father for a long time so changed to his mothers name then double barreled with his wifes name when they married. From what I recall it was a bit of a pain. I think he had to change his surname by deed poll twice. Whereas his wife just sent off her wedding certificate to change everything she needed to.

rina - "All this talk of "having a family name" is nonsense. You do have a family name. You've taken at least part of your surname from your parents, right? So your name represents your first family, just like your husband's represents his."

So what do you do with your own children? do you always double-barrel?

I have not taken my DH's name but i may when we have children, if they have his. we could double-barrel i suppose but it sounds awful so it would be a triumph of principle over sense

I didn't change my name when I got married, I didn't see why and DH supported this.

When I was expecting DS I wanted us all to have the same name. We all now have DH's surname simply because it is a simple, traditional, easy to spell English surname rather than my voweltatsic, constantly mispelt, Gaelic one.

However, I am still Dr MaidenName at work. I am not so sure I would have changed to Mrs Marriedname if I could not legitimitley use Dr MaidenName in some circumstances.

The problem with double-barrelling, is what do you do when you want to marry someone who is also double barrelled?

Quadruple barrel?

I guess people jsut drop one each of the surnames and then re-double barrel, like in Spain?

"I did once know a woman who got divorced but kept her married name."

HerBeX I'll be keeping my married name when I'm divorced. Isn't that what most women do?

To be honest, it's easier to keep it than to change it back to my 'maiden' name and it's a lot easier to spell