Do fairy tales have a lot to answer for?

[poshsinglemum]

Do they perpetuate the myth that all of us women need to be rescued? Or are they harmless fun?

I remember reading once that Shakespeare has a lot to answer for with all his fairies being able to curl inside a buttercup and what have you. Apparently fairies have got smaller through time. In fact Tinkerbell may have a lot to answer for.

Do you think the fairies might be the remnants or our old pre-Christian religion coming through? They are certainly dark and magic enough, and they live in the woods mainly. And they are capricious like the greek gods. And they are in some way separate, almost opposed to Christianity. And the best stories tend to hover around the Celtic fringes where even the "saints" tend to be more like wise men/women and be friends with the animals etc.

I like the werewolf girl too but I can't remember her name...

Angua?

Sorry, shouldn't have used the word "girl" - heavily influenced by DD today

E&M, I don't need an excuse to buy a book... When I'm on boring conference calls (every day) I trawl Amazon looking for something new. I love that these threads result in so much new literature for me.

Yes, she's the one!

Ariel isn't so cute though!

Or Queen Mab. :)

I fought myself over having an amazon account for years, then failed a year ago.
I've been very bad ever since, I have an eclectic nature and a retentive memory but I find it hard to distinguish between needs and wants.
So I have maaany books.

E&M, I do think that fairies are the old pre-Christians but I suspect that my thinking is heavily influenced by the Arthurian obsession I still have had in my late teens/early twenties based on books written where the old, matriarchal, religion is crushed by patriarchal Christianity. Really can't remember who wrote them but know it was more than one author...

Mists of Avalon by Marion Zimmer Bradley is one of the key versions. There was a heated discussion about her on here, because of the paedophile she knowingly married.

Goblinchild - that's definitely one of them. I had no idea...

I did A Midsummer Night's Dream for O Level so of course I am a lifelong expert. I recall learning that it was that exact play that turned fairies from nasty to nice in the English imagination. Up until then fairies had been thought of as purely malignant (like nature generally--frogs were regarded as AWFUL, hence kissing one was a truly vile thing to do).

And any time an educated person hears "Ariel" mentioned, they should respond, "Shakespeare's, or that overdressed hussy in Disney?"

I love the scene in 'Ballet Shoes' where Pauline and Petrova are cross because the fairies in the production of MSND have to wear nasty mustard coloured body stocking things, instead of pretty fairy dresses.

jinglebelledamesansmerci OMG the little mermaid is possibly the worst... she sacrificies her voice - her most precious asset in that it enables her to express who she is - in order to appear as the physical ideal the prince expects!!
...although in the original it doesn't work well for her - so maybe is a wise cautionary tale? - what happens in the disney version? anyone?
gonna havve to rework this one for DD but not sure she's ready for 'she dissolved into the foam'
any suggestions?

by the way one we really like, for DCs - the 'apple pip princess' it's not really a fairy story but I think its a good princess one with a lttle bit of 'magic' in it.. beautiful pictures too..

dreamylady - in Disney, the mermaid gets her man. As you would probably have guessed. Sadly, my DD really likes Disney's version but mostly because of Ariel's (oh the irony) red hair. Not that DD has red hair but she really wishes she did. I may have done too good a brainwashing job there. (I love red hair and am appalled at the bullying that goes on, etc, etc so made a big deal of saying that red hair is beautiful, etc).

My favourite fairy tale, when I was very young, was Snow White and Rose Red. I had a therapist once who used fairy tales to help to analyse her clients. She'd never heard of it (and, in hindsight, some of the therapy may have been about her own agendas anyway). I haven't read it for years but may have a look to see what I think of the symobolism now (and then see what somebody with some actual knowledge says about it).

Elephants I love fairy tales too, I don't want to destroy them. BUt having said that, they definitely did influence my world view, as a girl, whereas a boy wouldn't be affected in the same way.

Has anyone read Bettleheim on fairytales?

They do serve an important function of telling children that it will all be alright in the end.

that's part of the problem tethers!

I love Cecily Mary Barker's Flower Fairies

JingleBellsDamesMerci I LOVED Snow white and Rose Red. Loved it. It captured my imagination in way that other fairy stories never had. I used to wonder which one I would be.
I think the reason it appealed so much, with hindsight, was because there were two girls involved. It passed the Bechdel test!

Can I just put a word in for Sara Maitland's books: A Book of Spells and On becoming a Fairy Godmother.

I especially love The Wicked Stepmother's Lament (Cinderella's stepmother's own story) and the story of Hansel and Gretel's witch. I also love the flying stories - the little girl who is taught to fly, and the new mother who joins a sky of women as her baby sleeps below.

Proper, grown-up fairy stories.

Gosh this thread is excellent sorry nothing to add, full of ale and flexing the card at amazon...

BelligerentGhoul you linked to The Stolen Child above, fab book, so atmospheric in it's own right, true to the atmosphere of the poem too

Tethers do you mean The Uses of Enchantment?
It's on my to-do list, for the poetry of it's title if nothing else. And I'm sure there's plenty else

Sakura, I've never "met" anyone else who knows it.

But why exactly is that a problem, Sakura?

It's incredibly important for children to believe that everything will be alright in the end. How can they feel secure otherwise?

Me too, walking- that's why I was asking. I have been meaning to read that book for about 10 years now