The demonisation of single mothers.

[SantaIsAnAnagramOfSatan]

Hi,

I've ended up talking about this in various threads but have never dedicated a thread to it.

So, i'm looking for your thoughts. How do we see this in action? What are the views of single mothers? How are they propagated? Why are they propagated and why do they attract such demonisation?

I'd also like to hear about where you think the feminist vision saw single mothers, did it predict their would be more given the increased freedom women would have in their lives and their ability to leave male partners or choose to not have one without being financially or socially (though that hasn't held true entirely compared to 1960's it's at least possible to live this way) ruined?

Is women being able to have children alone a part of the feminist outcome - if women have more control over their bodies and reproduction surely it was an inevitable outcome? And is it in your mind a positive or negative thing in terms of feminism?

I'm actually going away for a few days now but hope this will attract lots of thoughts for me to read when i get back.

As for me, to put this in context, i am a single mother of a pre school boy. When i found out i was pregnant (unplanned) at 30 i decided that i was happy to be and wanted to keep the baby but that i didn't want to stay in the problematic relationship with the father. Therefore i've been a single parent from the outset.

I have framed this as about single mothers rather than single parents as it is my experience that single fathers are seen very differently, imo as heroes and glorified whereas single mothers get the demonisation treatment in popular culture.

Look forward to reading your thoughts.

that's my motto, I think HB

Yes agree with you both (naturally ). it was more the point that, until the revolution comes we have to work with what we've got, and without financial independence in our society you are screwed - which is the reason so many single mothers live in poverty. Until we rearrange society it's a common sense move really. Reading all of the threads on here where women are being subjected to quite extreme financial abuse, it's so frightening.

PS I like that this thread avoided derailment!

Interesting discussion. I am the product of a single mum! Fantastic she was/is too!

People are always amazed (and don't hide it very well)when they hear this as I am reasonably successful professionally and personally (nowt special but just normal I suppose)

It's funny isn't it whelk. People are so strange, these stereotypes run very deep.

Sakura Sun 05-Dec-10 13:46:36

"They won't. After the revolution, after patriarchy is crushed, then we can all relax, but until then, until women have at least 50% of economic and political power, then I wouldn't hand back hard-won rights over children to men."

So when women earn 50% of the money, will they be 50% of the work-place related casualties too? Or will you just pay men less to work on your sewerage systems? Pay men less work with dangerous electical cables? Pay men less to work dangerous seas to catch your fish? How will it work? Will you pay women more to do the jobs they have already? I mean, there is no WAY that a teacher, nurse or office drone should get paid anywhere near as much as an electrician, a plumber or a deep-sea fisherman.

As it stands, women are like 7% of workplace casualities... Heh, which means not many are doing the dangerous, high-paying jobs that people like my father get severely injured doing.

Where I come from, the average electrician earns more money than say your average office drone. Being an office drone myself, I work with alot of women. My father, the electrician works with entirely men.

He's broken bones falling off ladders, knocked half his teeth out in one fall. When you put up with his level of stress, physical labour and risk to your body, you deserve to get paid as much as him.

I like my cushy desk job and I like my air conditioned cubical, I'm willing to get paid a little bit less if I stay cool, clean and well-caffinated. Why aren't women? In all seriousness, are women too good to work on a construction site?

Those who say single mothers who don't rely on the state are not demonised, this is what happened to my mum:

• her 'friends' stopped asking her to dinner parties - until that is she married again 15 years later. Did they think she was a threat? Yep I bet they did - she's gorgeous! Does this excuse it? Of course it doesn't.
• not one friend ever babysat for her, as because she didn't have a partner so couldn't logistically repay the favour
• the vicar started to look the other way
• she lost several friends
• many many people, in the course of normal conversation about the state of the country or similar will include that part of the preceived demise is because of broken homes/ single parents.

BillHicks- Yawn

Well they run deep because people keep repeating them. A few weeks ago, Ian Duncan Smith made a big speech, in which he repeated all the old stereotypes about the children of lone parents - truancy, criminality, lack of qualifications etc. Now IDS has done a lot of work on this and he knows very well, that if you take income out of the variables, the figures all level out and the children of single parents do exactly the same as children of couples at the same income level - so the reason for bad outcomes, is not single parenthood, it's poverty. He knows this - he's worked with the Rowntree foundation, Gingerbread, etc., he has access to all the data. But he chooses to ignore it, because the implications would be, that

• you have to up benefit levels for the children of lone parents

• you have to force absent parents to pay maintenance (currently 3/5 of them don't, and the ones who do, generally pay it at derisory levels)

• you have to make the workplace more adapted the needs of mothers and children and families, so that lone parents can function in the workplace much more easily thna they do now.

None of which he and the government are interested in doing. They would rather just force unhappy, dysfunctional people to stay living together and role model unhappy, dysfunctional relationships. So of course, he ignores that major factor and hammers out another single parent myth, which goes into the general pot of myths out there and affects people's consciousness.

Why do you have to adapt the workplace? Why would you pay two people the same if one is unreliable and the other is always there on time, staying in late, missing family appointments to finish projects? What you're saying is that a career-orientated people need to change the way they work to suit people who are dividing their time between the difficult task of raising a HUMAN BEING and equally difficult task of furthering a career.

BillHicks, women work in more dangerous jobs than men. The two most dangerous jobs in the world? Nurse and prostitute.

Childbirth is a fairly dangerous occupational hazard too.

I'm a single parent by choice. I got pregnant in a casual relationship. The father didn't want to be involved and I knew this as soon as I found out I was pregnant. I would have preferred him to have had some input into my DD's life mainly because I bought into the belief that children need two parents, he chose not to.

I am not aware that I have been demonised for being a single parent. I am a home owner and have worked almost full time since her birth, not sure if this is the reason.

I have been looked down on on mumsnet when I've argued that it's a fundamental human right to have a family, not just for women who have mangaged to bag themselves and man. It's been argued back that my family isn't valid because there isn't a man and that children generally do better living with two parents. I guess people on an anonymous forum might voice opinons that they wouldn't dare to your face so perhaps that is secretly what people think that I meet but I haven't been made aware of it.

Not engaging with you BillHicks.

I think if you are a reasonably financially secure single mother, people think you're brave and a bit of a heroine rather than responsible for all society's ill.

For example, when you look at the 'facts' about black boys in our society, the issue that many of them are brought up by single mothers is raised time and again as a reason for their disproportionate representation in the crime stats. As though if they had a dad around, that would magically make them decent upstanding members of society. When in reality it's about poverty, not the lack of a father.

Sakura....I know you are a calm and wonderful feminist but I am wondering if there is any point engaging with this poster. He's on the wind up, noone can be that ignorant, ignoring the fact that women are and have been distinctly unwelcome both directly and indirectly in such 'dangerous' jobs. I, of course, may argue that most women aren't too bloody stupid to obey rules and think about safety before pissing off up a ladder that isn't secure.

LB....Don't you think the 'respect' element that is inherent in African/West Indian families is undermined by so called absent fathers, the ultimate lack of respect.

I think if fathers had to pay for their children, ie at least 1/3, then maybe they would start using condoms.

did someone on MN really tell you your family wasn't valid because there wasn't a man christmaseve ???

Christmas.....I guess it depends whether you 'accidentally' got pregnant or not, I wouldn't think it was at all right to force someone into being a parent.

what am I thinking... I only frequent the feminist topic thesedays. I forget what the real world is like, and that people still have these bizarre views. Luckily this section invites the occasional visitor such as BillHicks

thanks TheFeministParent.. the voice of reason (who knows I'm not really that calm... )

It's funny since I turned I am shocked daily by the attitudes of others. Just walked into the lounge and DH had 'carry on....pile of crap' on, I nearly broke my neck turning it over before the DCs were showered in the misogynist shite!! Poor DH thought I had just seen a spider with the scream!!

I don't believe that the 'respect' element is inherent in West Indian/African cultures, so no TFP. I do think that if fathers were properly pursued for their financial contributions (and got some kind of financial penalty for stopping work the moment they are tracked down by the CSA - which seems to be quite popular judging by a lot of the posts in the Lone Parents forum) then a lot of erstwhile fathers might be a bit more careful re contraception.

LOL @ since you turned
I'm the same

Yes, it's years ago now, when I pointed out in a thread about single parents that it was a human right to have a child, no matter what the circumstances, it was pointed out that it was a human right to have a family, meaning two parents and a child.

I didn't plan to get pregnant in the casual relationship, it was a shock but I wanted to keep the baby. I told him he was free to go and when he appeared to be battling with it I tried to encourage him to take a role in her life but it proved pointless as she got older and he moved on with his life.

I was in my early thirties so perhaps it this was a factor in my experience of being accepted.

I agree with you about it being a human right to have a child

[although I am fiercly against surrogacy- the thought of people renting a woman's womb makes me feel ill- and I'm not too keen on the entire fertility industry either, which makes so much money out of so much misery; but this is another topic really.

But aside from that, yes, I think it's a human right to have a child

Of course it is a human right to have a child. In some cultures which have not relied so extensively on the nuclear family such as tribal families then this was not seen as a shocking thing to believe.

The nuclear family is not all that; otherwise why would there be so many single parents? 50% marriages end in divorce; a significant proportion of those will have kids.

IMO it is an honour to be seen as a threat. I proves that there is something good to be threatened by.

I'm feeling a bit upset because a women who I used to be friends with has started to blank me and I'm sure it's because I'm a single mum. She thinks I'm after her bloke. yawn. I liek him as a friend but i'm not attracted to him and I have no intention of ''stealing'' him.

And all of this bashing of ytoung mums. Well it makes me sick when young mums are in prime child-bearing age. Older mums have far more risks of downs children etc. Tis cultural and driven by capitalism.