Mental health and the patriarchy.

[poshsinglemum]

To what extent does the patriarchy contribute to the poor mental health of both men and women? I am thinking along the lines of men ''unable'' to express their emotions due to rigid gender stereotypes and women taking valium when staying at home to look after the kids. I know that these are stereotypes in themselves but please tell me your insights!

It has been well documented that Sylvia Plath was chronically depressed due to Ted Hughes infidelity. Is this patriarchy or simply human nature?
Virginia Woolf had a distrust of the psychiatriactric profession marking it out as a male dominated/patriarchal system even though she had major mentalhealth issues.

Do you think that woemn are seen as ''hysterical or mad'' under a patriarchal system as it seeks to repress the emotional side of life.

Also; why does patriarchy dismiss emotions when they are such an important part of everyday existence? Is it not possible to be both rational AND emotional? Does it serve to justify the staus quo and capitalist alienation from nature? Phew!

Sorry about typos.

I think Sylvia Plath had issues way bigger than where Ted was sticking it tbh.
Are you writing some kind of essay??

No; I am thinking about my dissertation on gender stereotypes. I was struck by something I read about Virginia Woolf. I also thought about my mum's mental health and her marriage. I am wonderiung if my mum felt ''repressed'' by her role in the marriage and if it contributed to her depression. I am just trying to gather opinions and initiate discussion.

Well I think the history of mental health has a hugely misogynistic overtones. Hysteria - literally ascribing mental illness to the possession of a womb - is about as clear as you can get in terms of institutionalisiing the "women are crazy/irrational" stereotype. Then Freud who founded modern psych basically barely bothered to come up with any theories about women, passing off some half-baked version of the theories he had developed about the development of boys.

We are still suffering from the old stereotypes as crazy/unknowable (which in a world that values "rationality" as defined by men pretty much equals the same thing) when we get called "hormonal" or asked whether it's the time of the month. We've talked on here before about how much men are given excuses for their behaviour on the basis of their fearsome testosterone, but somehow avoid being called hormonal or "testerical" themselves.

Hi thanks for some interesting replies.

Dittany; I was amazed to read about Freud in ''Why does he do that?'' by Lundy Bancroft who explains that Freud was forced to cover up his findings concerning abuse of women in childhood by fabricating the Oedopus complex?

And to think that modern psychology is based around the theories of Freud. Something's gone wrong.

In a culture where men are not men if they are seen to express emotions and women are seen as irrational, no wonder we in such a mess.

Sylvia Plath had major depression and also a personality disorder. she attempted suicide prior to meeting Hughes and was hospitalised for it. I'm sure his infidelity did nothing to help her state of mind but it is dangerous to assume that suicide the ultimate act of violence to ones self can be blamed on another person however undesirable they are. The act of suicide and other forms of deliberate self-harm are the responsibility of the person who commits them. Sylvia Plath was always going to commit suicide, even if everything was going right. Sadly her son has too.

I work with DSH (mostly young women) every single working day, it's more often than not to do with relationships, mostly with their mums (sounds s bit freudian but IME true), one of the main focus of therapy is about them taking responsibility for their own behaviour.

Re patriarchy and mental health, historically mental health "care" was very sexist and mysogynist. "hysteria" was a word used to describe womens "madness" hys meaning womb in either greek or latin.

I'm reminded of a book I read some time ago (the female malady?)It discussed the evolution of Shell Shock diagnosis, basically calling soldiers hysterical was unacceptable so a more Manly sounding diagnosis was created. There is a long tradition of giving the same behaviour different names depending on gender, the easier to dismiss one and give serious attention to the other.
As to whether the patriarchy damages our mental health, I'm getting the feeling that women are essentially being gaslighted on a huge scale.
Rambling post don't do that often.

The chapter on penis envy in The Feminine Mystique is relevant here. Women who were depressed because they were bored and frustrated at home and wanted something more in their lives were told they must have 'penis envy' by people who misused and exploited Freud's already half-baked ideas. In fact they were being perfectly rational in wanting the things men were allowed to have because they had penises; they were effectively told their were immature and mentally ill simply because they wanted these things.

I hope this doesn't seem too flippant in the context but the nuclear family seems to me to institutionalise sleep deprivation for women, which can contribute to minor or major MH issues (women having sole charge of small children can lead to years of disturbed sleep, plus the enforcement of sharing your bed with a snoring, light-turning-on man)

It seems to very hard for women who have disturbing snorey husbands to just leave them to it in another room. It seems to upset people, cause questions about the sacred Relationship if a woman is not completely at a man's nocturnal disposal. Imagine if your husband swept your food off the table while tucking into his own every time you sat down to a meal. You wouldn't be very well, and it would be called abusive.

I had a partner who seriously thought I should take heavy sleeping pills rather than sleep elsewhere because he snored horribly and couldn't bear the "disrespect" implied by me not occupying his bed. There a million threads on here by desperate women whose husbands refuse to see a dr about snoring and think they should just put up with it.

Sorry that was too long for a very simple point. It's been welling up for a few years.

I rather doubt that sexual abuse and sexism are the cause of all women's mental health problems. They may we ll be a major contributing factor in a lot of cases but there are other causes of mental ill health.

"Natural" is an insidious concept isn't it? Will read the books suggested in this thread. Have read a bit about Freud but nothing in depth about his cover up. Am interested in this topic, and the power it can have. On the one hand, it can stigmatise certain "natural" behaviours and repress them with the threat of being labelled mad, OTOH, it can also encourage conformity to behaviour that it deems "natural" but is actually symptoms of PTSD.
How can we know what good mental health would be, or what is natural for women if there hasn't been a generation that has been allowed to develop naturally without being preyed on.
note - I don't view men preying on women to be natural.

Freudian theory has been largely discredited amongst many mental health professionals. his "research" is seen as flawed biased and in some cases complete fantasy. However the NHS continues to spend thousands of pounds training psychoanalytic psychotherapists in these methods, and subjecting vulnerable individuals to long term expensive non evidence based treatments which can actually make them feel worse. That's not to say all psychotherapy is like this, some of it is excellent, and worthwhile, particularly that therapy that takes an eclectic approach in the models that are used.

Dittany no I don't. That would be hugely unprofessional of me. Sometimes I may have info with the referral about sexual assault. Sometimes through the course of therapy and development of the therapeutic relationship they will disclose things to me, which have to be handled extremely sensitively and carefully NOT by direct questionning.

There is no doubt having worked with women on secure units that women are very damaged by abusive relationships. Often by sexual abuse, sometimes not. Often by prostitution as a result of being previously abused. there is a clear correlation between the 2. Some women with a borderline personality diagnosis have been sexually abused. MOST have had inadequate, disruptive, disorganised attachments early on with their main caregiver, usually their mother as a result of their mothers mental health difficulties.

Which is why a lot more money and resources need to be poured into maternal well being and infant mental health. This is the kind of thepry that will really make a difference.

These are all interesting points. But I would caution strongly against viewing women's mental health problems too exclusively in terms of the contribution of 'the patriarchy'. I don't doubt that elements of our sexist society contribute to women's mental ill-health, and I don't doubt that perceptions of women's mental health and mental disorder are affected by a male-dominated discourse about mental health,

But! But, but, but. What a travesty it is, what an abuse it is, to take women, self-sufficient, self-existing women, and dissect their sanity in terms of their relationship with men. Sylvia Plath was a brilliant and profoundly flawed woman, with her own complexity, her own sufficiency in insanity. It depresses me utterly to see her relationship with Ted Hughes made definitive of her. It is a horribly dogmatic intrusion of theory into the nuances of a human relationship. I hate it. There is more to women than their victimisation by men. I am not the sum total of men's maltreatment of me. I am myself with all my flaws.

And it is a trivialisation of Freud to talk of cover ups. He was brilliant but flawed, too.

Freudian psychology isn't taught at all as part of a BPS accredited psychology degree anymore.

As for SP, I dont think she actually meant to kill herself.

The treatment of female mental ill health is part of the general (over)medicalisation of women's bodies.

It's a matter of routine to ask questions about physical and sexual violence when taking psychiatric history, isn't it?

I wasn't asked about domestic violence either time when pregnant. Had I been I would have found it fairly intrusive tbh, most people aren't in abusive relationships. I know many many mothers, no one has ever mentioned they've been asked about this unless there had been some context (known forced marriage, partner with violent convictions, teenage mum with much older partner etc.)

If I was to routinely ask in assessments about sexual abuse I'd be pulled up about it by my supervisors. I may ask about early life experiences, things that have helped develop perpetuate and maintain the problems they are experiencing. Then there may be disclosure.

Re responsibility, what we try to move towards is people who DSH forgiving themselves, telling themselves that what happened to them was not their fault, working on the misplaced guilt and shame. Alongside that we work on them trying to keep themselves safe, forgiveness (to the self) and behavioural change, not necessarily acceptance of what's gone before though, not all the time. Some therapy can provide limited reparenting with a view eventually towards independence, skills development, safety.

I once had an ex who threatened to kill himself if I left him, this was over the phone. He told me he had tablets, I reiterated the relationship was over and called the police. I did not take responsibility for his behaviour.

Eleison good post and I agree Freud was brilliant but flawed. Some of what he says makes perfect sense and some is obviously wrong.

The female Malady is the classic text on this and there are loads of excellent fictional books on women and mental health.

Minx good for you.