Is it non-feminist to wear make-up?

[jinglesticks]

My dad told me off for wearing make-up claiming it was wrong on feminist grounds,and I can kind of see what he means, but I don't want to because I like wearing make-up. It does uphold the notion that women are meant to be pretty and decorated for men. Plus it's an inequality in that men don't feel they have to wear make-up and spend time making themselves look better in this way, whereas women do. Also the cosmetic industry promotes feelings of inadequacy in women, because we don't all have perfect skin etc. I can also see why someone like my dad who helped fight sexism in the sixties only to be faced with the ridiculous post-feminism of the spice-girls encouraging us to celebrate our femininity via the means of fake eyelashes and knee-high boots would be annoyed at me wearing make-up.

So what do you think? I like to think that I wear make-up in a quirky, colourful way, expressing individuality rather than trying to look like a model. Am I just kidding myself?

Lots of men in the media are having botox etc. Simon Cowell?

Madwoman, she would have liked the mall trip. Will take your comments on board btw. She is totally individual and suppose I am gently encouraging her to fit in when it comes to parties etc.

I can remember it being very fashionable not to wear make-up, especially for young women at Uni. It's done a U turn in recent years, perhaps it's just fashion. Women should be able to dress how they feel comfortable and to please themselves. I think most do.

oh, no. i haven't done it yet. i'm still scruffy curly of hair and make-up less, and clean. honest.

was just referring to this job application i'm working on, where i'm going to have to bite the co-ordination bullet and come up with something coiffed and glamoreux in order to persuade the (small c) conservative women of a certain age that dominate the arena that i am a worthy candidate. i think accessories stand a better chance than my usual 'i'm here, and i'm good, so hire me' air. compromise, compromise. except, like you say, i don't think leaving the make up out of the big hair/ matching purse and shoes ensemble will be a winner.

i'm usually of the opinion that confidence is just as sexy hireable.

oops, cross post.

btw, this is sort of tongue-in-cheek given I (a) am a corporate lawyer (and a kick-ass one at that, certainly not scared of arguing with loud overbearing men or women) (b) often don't get time/can't be arsed/have too sensitive skin to wear make up and (c) have never really felt I wanted or could fall back on "feminine wiles" to get where I wanted. And where I have been on the wrong end of sexual harassment I've been very angry indeed, and would be if I saw it happening at work. I STILL think it's interesting how the make-up "thing" fits in at work, tho, and in an ideal world it just wouldn't. The world is, however, for from ideal and in the meantime, while the dribblers are abroad (dribbling is also not harassment, not until they do something more), one has to deal with them one way or another.

And actually, yes, there are some female partners who didn't get there on their professional ability. Don't like it, but it is the case.

I often wonder what I'll do when I'm an old lady and make up looks worse than no make up. (Thinking of the stage when you are so wrinkly that foundation would be a disaster and you have so many vertical lines around your mouth lipstick is a no-no as well.)

I am a feminist but I would never leave the house without at least powder and mascara and preferably foundation and blusher too. Partly because I like the effect, partly because I'm insecure, partly because I am conscious of the effects of aging. (Had v. v. v. good skin until practically the last minute of my 30s and it disappeared overnight, sadly.)

no, that's just something you inferred! No one said anything about anyone sleeping with anyone. You just leapt to the end of another spectrum. I don't think there are male partners who are there "just" because they are male either. What an odd thing to say! It's the nuances that are interesting, not the polemics.

I think I am going to leave it now. Sleep well.

just had that conversation at work on fri, dittany. three applicants for job - one with 3 years experience, one with 10 , one with 15. which one gets the job? the one with the penis.

i wanted to send him an e-mail congratulating him on the said ownership, but my (female) colleagues wouldn't let me. my boss did send the quote to the other two applicants, however.

my, how we laughed.

I had a very interesting conversation about make-up with a bunch of DH's friends one evening (all male). Admittedly they're a particular type of male (nerdy, friendly and sweet) but they felt their views represented the views of a lot of men (but of course not all). There was a unanimous feeling that make-up was at best a pointless waste of time and at worst utterly horrible. They all preferred women without make up. When I asked why the basic feeling was that it looked false and that it was better to see a woman's real face. Since then I've become friendly with quite a few men who seem to see me as one of the boys (compliment?) so I've been privvy to a few conversations about women and a criticism I've heard time and time again is "She's lovely but she wears far too much make up" In fact one time a girl the boys knew who always wore make up turned up without any for some reason one evening and she caused quite a stir. When she left the general feeling was "God I didn't know she was that pretty, pity she wears so much make up." Interestingly the general feeling among the guys was that women wear make up to impress other women rather than to impress men.

I do wonder if women really wear make up for men or if they wear it for other women. I certainly feel far more judged by women than by men, in terms of my looks, weight etc. I sometimes wear make up but never much and the main reason is because I don't have good skin and I'm a bit self conscious about it.

MarineIguana - I think you got it right in your post @21:10 and especially this bit:

"And I honestly don't think most women wear make-up "for men" or that most men really notice or care."

Flipping it round for a moment, it was suggested that it would be nice if men wore cosmetics by JessinAvalon. I dont wear makeup but I like to wear nice clothes and every morning I shower, put antiperspirant on, shave my face carefully and if my skin is sore I put moisturiser on. Sometimes I shave the hair on other parts of my body. Its important to me to look good and and smell good and reasonably well groomed without being obsessive.

A little earlier this evening, DW gave me a hug and told me I looked nice and smelled nice. I liked her saying that but I still chose my clothes and showered and shaved this morning primarily for myself.

If a woman only wore makeup, nice clothes, brushed her hair, etc because she felt pressured to be attractive to men that would be a shame. I dont think many women do that but on the other hand there is nothing wrong with wanting to look nice to the opposite (or even same) sex either if that is what you want.

Worrying that wearing makeup might be anti-feminist is perhaps a case of overthinking things a bit.

Writer, I've been privy to similar conversations but I like the way I look with it so sod them. [hgrin]

Agree Dittany, all double standards, met a few men who fall for the way you look, (not that I'm anything special) but then try and tell you how to dress/look when they think you are theirs. i.e play it down, don't like other men noticing you now. That's why I'm single [hgrin]

Complex question from my POV, and not as simple as a few posters wish to make it seem.
With Beenbeta, from a male experience - I always take care, smell gud, shave close and dress reasonably well. Not through a need to attract anyone, just as I feel I express in this one way a sense of 'self-care'.
Also with edam from a 'consideration of age' pov.
And I do find it odd that a woman who use make up should feel as if she is compromising her sense of value. Make up use isn't historically stuck in modern hetro-sexual dimensions by any means. It's fun, and expressive.

I wear make-up

I don't care what anyone thinks

I look ill, and tired, without it

Social conditioning ? Maybe. I am happy to be conditioned in this instance. What I wear is subtle, not pornified, not Katie Pricified.

It makes the difference between looking bright and attentive and like a tired old sack (for me, and that is all I am personally bothered about)

I wear makeup sometimes, and sometimes don't bother (or indeed forget that I meant to put some on). I don't think its' wrong to wear makeup if you want to, what does irritate me is the idea of it being seen as compulsory unless your job is, actually, the selling of makeup (which is why I put some on when I am visiting my Avon customers...)
But then I am so used to men wearing it too, at least socially, that it has never seemed that much of a big gender issue in my life.

dittany - i find it encouraging that you needed to ask, i suppose. lol at 'penis years' though, maybe the right candidate did get the job...

Haha, no-one is going to expect you to match nail varnish to anything madwoman - I used it as an example of something I choose to do or not to do with no reference to feminism or men because it is one thing that can never be accused of being there to make me look younger, more fertile, or more sexually available.

trills (i do apologise for calling you that, but it makes me come over all jockey hockey sticks) i think they might though...

but on the nail polish note - my poor deprived bunch of early teens i'm off to the mall with today are learning about manicures next week. from my pov, as a self-care/ grooming point, but given that most of them are sporting at least four different colours on each nail, i suspect they might have other notions... (should add i'm not the manicurist... but you probably guessed that...)

I agree with Dittany, men who say they don't notice make up or don't like it, are often lying.

They quite often think they don't like it, because they don't realise women are wearing it. But they do notice its absence and comment on it.

There was a programme on TV about 10 years ago where a woman in Newcastle decided to go for a night out without any make up on, just to see what reaction she got. It was incredible - masses of negative, rude and hostile responses from men shouting at her to put some make up on. I was very surprised that she got such a strong reaction as I didn't think they'd notice that much.

I wear it for the same reason Hester does - because of the social benefits of it. People are already freaked out by my outlandish views, I don't want to freak them out any more by looking non-conformist as well. (Although as I wear very cheap market-bought makeup and rub my eyes a lot, it's usually all worn off by 10AM, but hey, at least I've made the initial effort. )