Why did so many of us encounter sexism at university?

[LittleRedPumpkin]

Right, hope it's ok to start a thread on this - it's partly because I am thinking about it for myself, and partly the topic has come up on at least two threads recently so I thought it'd be nice to have a discussion about it.

Do you think universities are still fundamentally sexist? If so, why? Is there really something about higher education that men are better suited to (an argument I've heard a lot)?

Was your experience of women supervisors better or worse?

I'll get the ball rolling: I have had male supervisors, but now I'm in a department mostly made up of women. I've noticed that here, there is a far stronger attitude of co-operation and partnership between the academics and their students - PhDs, MAs and undergraduates. For example, if my own supervisor isn't an expert on a chapter I want to write, she sends me to have a supervision with someone else, who is more expert. There's no sense of me being 'their' student or one course being 'their course' to run. This is very different from the male-dominated university I went to before, so I wondered how typical it was.

What's your view on women at university?

Academia is a very male-dominated hierarchical institution. The School I work in has a mixture of male and female academics, ALL of the men have children, myself and one other woman has children. I was told I was a bad mother the other day because I leave my boys 4 days a week with their dad to travel to teach, whereas there are plenty of male academics doing the same and nothing is said. In my expereince, academia is full of mysogynists!!

That's terrible!

But it's also odd because as far as I can see, academia should be so well-suited to having children, unless you're lab-based. The hours tend to have some flexibility. I don't understand why academia is still so male-dominated and such sexist attitudes are allowed to persist ... it really seems as if it sexism is almost institutionalized.

still too raw
would like to discuss this but too emotional.
will try again in a few years....

I didn't encounter any really - occasionally one of the porters might make a 'blonde joke' but that's it. Mind you, I can be vicious forthright in my opinions, so maybe I wasn't a good target.

I didn't. I did experience class prejudice though.

Oooh my university was horrendous!

I did Drama which seemed to act as a carte-blanche for much unconventional behaviour amongst the male-dominated department. Male staff sleeping with female students was practically a department tradition. Because our subject was so subjective, often male lecturers would have us over a barrel for marking a module, which made it very difficult for female students to speak up about unwanted harassment/sexism as it was not unknown for a male lecturer to fail someone for a module for frankly personal reasons.

My dissertation supervisor (let's call him X) was probably the worst culprit - he used to call me 'pumpkin' in our dissertation meetings. In contrast, all the male students got called by their surnames by X in a hideous back-slappy rugger bugger fashion. At one point he suggested we publish my dissertation research, but under his name 'because I didn't have enough profile'. It was all fucking awful. He was clearly intimidated by intelligent women and so used to do all sorts of underhand things to undermine them.

The only thing that improved things was the arrival of a new, feminist member of staff, who was like a bloody beacon of hope for many of us there. She took X to task and told him loudly and only semi-privately that his behaviour was embarrassing and ridiculous, not to mention exploitative, and made him cry. Her arrival seemed to signal the arrival of the possibility for female students to formally complain about things as they knew they'd have an advocate.

In contrast I've got to say my PhD (same subject, different university) is an entirely different kettle of fish, so maybe there's hope. Saying that, my new department is headed by a woman and has a large female staff. My (male) supervisor is exemplary. He does as your female super does, LRP, in terms of referring me, but the departmental culture does sound similar.

I sometimes really wish I'd had my current confidence in my old university. There was much anger and frustration amongst the female students, but nowhere to really direct it, because people were genuinely worried about losing marks and people were worried about sacrificing their degrees if they challenged the culture.

I find academic life to be much less sexist than real life. The level of class prejudice I have seen and experienced is astonishing and creates ignorance in academic research..

dittany, there are places that only let women in in the last 25 years, let alone the last 100!

seth - sorry to bring up something so upsetting to you.

quod - I'm sure some male supervisors are lovely. My mate has a male supervisor she thinks the world of (though I have generally found him to be a patronizing, if not particularly sexist, person).

milly - can certainly agree with you on class prejudice. There's a level of naivety sometimes that is astonishing, but then class prejudice isn't really extricable from sexism, is it?

I don't think there is much sexism at universitys, I think that academic life lends its self to open mindedness and opposes predujices and preconceptions of society.
Also there are more female students at university than male students aren't there.

Are there? I didn't know that. There are certainly far more high-paid male academics than female ones, so I'm not sure the battle is won yet!

I wish academic life lent itself to opposing prejudice ... guess I may just have had some bad luck, I suppose.

Cambridge University pay gap

£37,157 compared to £28,247.

I think there are more male academics but there are more female students than male.

Link:www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/apr/02/female-students-majority-women-university

Lovely example seth.

I have heard - and I've never checked if this is true - that at one point, Oxford university needed to up its numbers of female professors, but didn't have the cash. So they proposed giving some lucky, lucky women cheapo versions where they got the title but not the payrise.

My masters supervisor was a feminist, the department was equally female to male. A nice atmosphere.

i didn't encounter any sexism as a female undergraduate in physics and maths - we were very much the minority in physics and i think the lecturers (all male) were very keen for us to do well and enjoy physics. maths was slightly less extreme.

HOWEVER we all knew by our fourth year that science is not something that is really not very compatible as a career with being a mother. it's VERY hard.

And in fact i know five career scientists now in mid to late 30s - one had a stay at home husband, one is now a science writer, one a lab manager, one is a researcher with one child but not hopeful about going back after her second, the final one was a real high flyer who then took about six years out entirely but was so good she's managed to get a toe hold again (but will be behind her male peers).

sorry about all the 'not's in my second para - i think you can guess what i was trying to say

Interesting. I did science at a university which was more or less just sciences, obviously there were trillions of men to each woman. Didn't notice any sexism - I think it's the effect of most of the men being computer geek/star trek/heavy metal types, who IME are a very decent sort of male

(the women were also generally computer geek/star trek/heavy metal types as well, for the sake of balance)

whoops could have just agreed with fluffles!

ISNT - yes, I've noticed the truth of that sweeping generalization too! It's interesting that sciences might be less sexist than arts (I'm an arts student and I believe SGM is an arts academic; someone had a bad experience as a drama student).

I teach undergrads and for all that women deliver the vast majority of the teaching the policy is male led.

Yes it's wrong.

But... and it's a personal but, a "how I cope" but... I think the individual impact we can have even though we don't write the curriculum is huge. The female students that come and ask me to listen and value my position; the way they can open up because I don't judge; the pride I have when they do make it through...
I don't know many male colleagues that have that. So if I am here to nurture, then I do that professionally as well as personally. I'm proud of that.