Language and Misogyny

[alexpolismum]

I have been thinking a lot about how language is used to express things implicitly or just to add a hint, a nuance, without explicitly saying something.

The more I think about it, the more it seems that misogyny is often expressed in this way. For example, saying "a nagging wife" or a "hysterical girl" etc.

This has also got me thinking about other points of language. Does it matter if we say for example 'actress' or should actor be used for both?

(I should perhaps mention that I am a professional translator, so I think carefully about the right choice of word all the time.)

Ooh, this has brought me on to another point. Do you think it belittles women to refer to them as 'girls' as adults, while males of the same age range are referred to as 'men'?

She didn't invent that interpretation, it was already well established. That's not something people studying the period always like to admit - it's as if, because she's one woman, it's ok for her to have this original theory about Jesus as feminine ...

I guess the question is, if earth was seen as more masculine whether it would be seen as less ok to treat it like something not sentient. But...considering my earlier posts...I'm in agreement with dittany

I mean if you agree with "raping the earth" then it's harder to criticise those who say "he raped you" to someone who's just lost an argument or "I was raped by the cash machine" when their card gets chewed up.

But dittany, people make useful stuff out of the 'rape' of the Earth. Nothing useful comes out of genuine rape.

Hmmm, so is that our rabid individualisation rather than anything else? We have to have the gifted individual rather than a consensual understanding?

Lost me there melezka

How come we have to say Julian invented the interpretation?

I didn't know people did - my reading of medieval religious thinkers is shockingly limited :o Will bow to LittleRed's superior knowledge.

I think people can except a decorous sprinkling of exceptional women much more easily than than the idea that many women and men were happily dealing with ideas about gender and women's achievement. Julian of Norwich is usually taught as an exception, one of maybe two women authors surrounded by men, and out of context. The idea that she tumbled to a theory of Jesus as mother because she was highly original reinforces the idea that the contrary position is absolutely normal.

Sorry Ants, I wasn't trying to be know-it-all, it's just something that bugs me! I hate the idea that women in history were exceptions - geniuses or crazy or both. I think we're very bad at accepting the idea that people in the past were sometimes less sexist (or differently sexist) than us.

Like we must be the pinnacle of achievement in reducing sexism or something.

I agree

That wasn't a dig by the way - you are good at history an tha'

I felt the same when I was reading about fishers becoming known as "fishermen" later - surprised that a previous era was more gender-neutral than today in any respect.

I get particularly cross at the use of the word "emotional" to describe a woman who is in fact, angry or upset. It implies the problem is down to her, rather than what has happened.

Rape: A moment's gratification even if it ruins somebody's life. 'We' are ruining the earth for short term convenience. So I can see why people talk about raping the earth. I wouldn't use that expression myself though.

...but somehow a man who punches a stranger in a nightclub or beats up his girlfriend in a rage is never described as "emotional".

Ooh, didn't know that about fishers, thanks!

dittany - I see what you mean. But I don't think anyone does something like strip mining because they want to hurt and/or control the earth as a main motive: they quite possibly don't care that those are some of the results, but they won't be the motive. Whereas, isn't rape about hurting and controlling at a fundamental level?

Off to shower, btw, but will come back and read so if I go silent, that's why!

Ok while we're here, what would you think/say if someone described a low-paid friend as being "raped by the company/boss/industry"?

I'm going to have a shower too (not with LRP honest)...spooky.

LongtallJosie, yes, and when apologising to a woman who is angry about something with good reason, a man might say 'i'm sorry that you got upset'. That's not an apology. It's you lost your head. stay calm, suck it up.

I had a bit of that when I was working in the city. I would try to stay calm. Say 'I'm not upset, I noticed that what you did was not right'. It was very hard though.

Some men. DOn't want to tar all men with the same brush. I worked with a particularly awful bunch. Some men slightly more evolved!

Goood point! A war! yes. Imagine caring that much that you'd invade another country

Speaking of Christ as mother, what about those Catholics with their combined virgin and mother goddess, conveniently ignoring the messy business that conventionally comes in between? There's a lot of gender issues there, some benign and some a lot less so.