Language and Misogyny

[alexpolismum]

I have been thinking a lot about how language is used to express things implicitly or just to add a hint, a nuance, without explicitly saying something.

The more I think about it, the more it seems that misogyny is often expressed in this way. For example, saying "a nagging wife" or a "hysterical girl" etc.

This has also got me thinking about other points of language. Does it matter if we say for example 'actress' or should actor be used for both?

(I should perhaps mention that I am a professional translator, so I think carefully about the right choice of word all the time.)

Ooh, this has brought me on to another point. Do you think it belittles women to refer to them as 'girls' as adults, while males of the same age range are referred to as 'men'?

Is that the same as the feminist dictionary, Dittany?

Is it the one where "cellulite" is defined as "imaginary" or something?

Oh, that's brilliant! Are either of these dictionaries on the web?

dittany - that sounds great! I'd love to read more!

I'm going to link it for a former colleague who is currently working in lexicography (producing a bilingual dictionary) and tell her to use it for inspiration in her current project!

That's funny. Cellulite my arse. As Jim Royle mgiht say.

Alexpolismum, tangent perhaps, but in terms of history, and footnotes about what women did. Was anybody else flabbergasted at that guy Starkey's objections to Philippa Gregory's novels? I know that part of his objection was that she'd spun around the facts to make fiction, but another part of his objection was that history wasn't about women, their story isn't history. Those weren't his exact words but it was his sentiment.

He needs a giant kick in his manpendage.

Sorry, but those comments really wound me up. But then maybe we should be please tha someone actually came out and said it?

I was only using the word 'slutty' last night, meaning the way Hooters staff had to dress and then stopped myself and apologised. We have no derogatory term for a man that likes sex do we?

Oh but Starkey is a twat, isn't he.

Was it him who also had a crack about women historians recently?

Mind you, I know plenty of male academics who think women's history is irrelevant and simply ignore it, which is almost worse than attacking it.

Oh yes, herstory. The study of the great himoes who created our himitage.

I wonder if women are getting the best or the worst deal when it comes to insults. If there's "crone" and "hag" there's "codger" or "old fart", and wouldn't we all assume that a "bastard" or "asshole" or "creep" or "jerk" or any number of nasty names applies to a male?

And, can a man apologize for (or maybe he'd be more likely to boast about) his "slatternly housekeeping"?

no except male version of female insults. I used to call men who slept with anything and everything "man-whores" and even then people laughed at the very idea or were shocked at the idea of men being called names for sleeping around.

pox-ridden gigolo?

Nope, it doesn't work.

I don't know what Hooters is, but I'd have been cross at the no doubt MALE decision to pimp out their female waiting staff (not a thought given to the 50% female clientele they might well alienate).

What were the male staff wearing?

yes Starkey has an enormous chip about women historians. They should just leave it to him and sit home decorating cup cakes.

Interesting that you should bring up "bastard" as an insult. A word referring to illegitimacy, maning basically that the person's parents were not married. Or that the father was not legally recognised. Is that really so terrible?? Is that really on a par with "slut'?

Really? I would rather watch one million hours of Bettany Hughes that 5 minutes of tiresome David blithering on.

It was terrible, to previous generations. A relative of mine was ashamed to her dying day that she was conceived (not even born) out of wedlock.

Oh god, I hate the term herstory. I mean, it's no different than taking an anti-hertamine when you have an allergic reaction, is it? I get the whole idea of using it to reclaim women's history, but I think all it does is show ignorance about the root of the word.

I went to this very hippy dippy vegetarian summer camp when I was a teenager where we learned that crone was just the third stage of womanhood - maiden, mother, crone. I think it must be a wiccan thing as they were quite into all of that! I've always liked the word for that reason, though.

Well I feel included in "humanity" but excluded from "mankind".
Words are hugely important and not only reflect but construct the culture we live in and we are right to interrogate this: though every time I do, even in a musing kinda way, I seem to be cast as the rabid feminist.
Not that I care.

This is a really personal gripe of mine now EvilAntsAndMiasmas, but I'm shocked at how in the USA they still use the word illegitimate so casually. ON the OC seth refers to his grandfathers ilegitimate daughter, on Desperate Housewives The Scavo's and Mrs McCluskey both used the term wrt Kayla (tom's dd), it's on the Bee movie, it's everywhere. It's just a mainstream word in the states. Can you imagine that word being used so casually, without even an oops, sorry, I mean, excuse my antiquated terminology there!

In Ireland holy fucking catholic Ireland which is a beacon for NO country, the term Illegitimate was constitutionally removed our terminology. No child is this word now. Their PARENTS were unmarried.

And breath. Still glad I didn't marry the fucker tho

I think we should reclaim crone. In the style of the 'when I am old I shall wear purple' poem.

'mankind' is fundamentally a term to do with exclusion, whereas humanity isn't. 'mankind' defines men against beasts and angels; humanity means both a moral quality and a term for people. I like that. Do you think it's an accident?

I like to classify myself as a crone or a hag - I feel it suits me even at this age :)

We might not say "bastard" to refer to a person whose parents weren't married. But if someone said "My boss is a real bastard", I don't think anyone would believe that (a) the boss's parents were unmarried or (b) the boss was a woman.

There was some Australian politician, who was well known to be illegitimate, who said (in posh pommie-bastard language) "My opponent is attempting to achieve, by his own efforts, that status in life which my parents achieved for me."

Now that's claiming an insult, eh.

Crone is a Wiccan/Pagan thing, with no negative connotations. Revered as a wise elder, learned in healing & so on. Definitely should be reclaimed.

Male insults are mostly to do with their genitalia, rather than their behaviour/age, more than women's. I'm thinking prick, bollox, cock, scrote*

*My clarifying and delightful contribution.

My personal (and professional, actually) interest at the mo is looking at how it might change the way we look at a particular cultural construct if it was known as "father nature" instead of "mother nature".