Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

My lovely friend is so happy married to a male chauvanist pig

53 replies

YunoWhatYouDidLastSummer · 26/10/2010 10:55

I am not suggesting that it is any of my business, but I do think about it. I feel conflicted.

She is educated, strong, confident, beautiful and capable.

He is highly educated, intellegent, funny, sociable.

They have a happy marriage with lots of children and lots of friends.

But he is SUCH an arse about some things - really important things.

Actually, what is the difference between a chauvanist and a mysoginist?

He earns the money so she does EVERYTHING else, and with lots of children and pg with another that is a lot to do. EVERYTHING. He comes in and puts his feet up and that's it.

Last Christmas he gave her a cleaner Shock. Everyone thought it was lovely of him and I was the only one spluttering - it makes me doubt myself.

And everything revolves around what he wants to do. He gets an awful lot of sport time and drinking time and tv time. She gets to do things too but he always has first dibs, so her social life fits in around his convenience.

And he is so bloody rude to her in front of people. Shouting and belittling. She says it's okay and he doesn't really mean it :( (People do call him on it though, and tell him it isn't okay).

He is such a spoiled child. And so testosterony. And I have occasionally said that he's a bit of a troglodyte (in a fond way - I know it's crap but I do like him in some ways and we socialise with them a lot, me being an arse to him wouldn't really achieve anything) and she laughs and agrees and doesn't seem to mind.

But surely she must?

She considers herself a feminist, and cares deeply about her daughters upbringing from a feminist perspective.

But... but...

OP posts:
EvilAntsAndMiasmas · 26/10/2010 16:35

It's the slagging her off to other people that's the scary part. If he's like that in public what about behind closed doors?

What sort of things does he say?

Unprune · 26/10/2010 16:35

Well Bonsoir in my case, my friend let the mask slip once, and only once. It was one sentence. She is NOT happy. She is lying to people, she is making the best of things, but she is not happy.

I suppose that's what this thread is about?? People who are married to rat bastards and in a situation they don;t like, but pretending all the way?

amothersplaceisinthewrong · 26/10/2010 16:39

Maybe, just maybe she is happy witih the situation.....

Original poster
YunoWhatYouDidLastSummer · 26/10/2010 16:55

Anna - it is not about him earning the money and her doing the housework. It is about him being the most important person in their family, and her colluding with that.

Last weekend she cancelled Sunday morning plans because he wanted to go out drinking on Saturday night and refuses to deal with the children when he has a hangover. She views this as give and take - she's happy to stay home if he needs time to recover. I just struggle to think of any examples of him 'giving'. It's all her giving and him taking.

If he takes issue with something she says he will rip into her and humiliate her and not let it go. It is embarrassing for everyone.

He stopped talking to her for 3 weeks because he was cross about a row. Literally stopped taking to her. Did not address a word to her for 3 weeks. It was like some bizarre show of strength, or punishment, or something.

And yes, he does work hard, but so does she. I don;t buy that he works hard so she has to do everything all weekend too.

OP posts:
Original poster
YunoWhatYouDidLastSummer · 26/10/2010 16:57

AMothersPlace. Yes, I think she is. It makes me feel sad that her sense of self worth allows her to be happy in this situation. It is not what I would want for my daughter. Handmaiden to a brilliant, stroppy man? No.

OP posts:
HerBeatitude · 26/10/2010 17:10

Bonsoir, can you really not get what is wrong about being put down by your husband in public? And not being talked to, literally not talked to, for three weeks? And letting you carry things and pack the car by yourself, when you are pregnant, instead of being protective and loving and cherishing, like a normal man?

Does your husband humiliate you in public?

Does he give you the silent treatment for three weeks if you have a row?

Was he not cherishing and protective towards you when you were pregnant?

If he did any of these things, would you find it OK? If he did all of those things, would you still find it OK?

It's not OK. Women need to be told that it is not OK, not told that they don't need to worry about this stuff. They do need to worry about it, they shouldn't be assured that they it's acceptable. It isn't.

Bonsoir · 26/10/2010 18:29

There is nothing wrong unless either or both of the partners in the couple is unhappy. Marriage doesn't work to a perfect script (thank goodness).

JessinAvalon · 26/10/2010 19:00

A lot of the behaviours that are described in relation to this couple can be found in Patricia Evans' book, The Verbally Abusive Relationship.

ScaryFucker · 26/10/2010 19:03

...and perhaps in the "Stepford Wife Manual" (if there is such a publication...)

sprogger · 26/10/2010 19:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Unprune · 26/10/2010 19:06

Bonsoir, that applies to so many things: but it won't stop people raising an eyebrow and commenting when they see one partner behaving abnormally and the other just...taking it.
Happy or not. Their business or not.

Haliborange · 26/10/2010 19:35

I'm not sure I have a problem with her doing everything house and child related if she doesn't. I suspect that if my DH stayed home and I was the sole earner I would lean towards feeling that I shouldn't also be doing house stuff (child stuff is a slightly different matter, I feel). But that is all a question of what division of labour suits particular parents.

However I would have an enormous problem with him belittling her and ignoring her (bet those 3 weeks were like a holiday for her). That doesn't make him a chauvenist or a mysogenist, though. It makes him an arse. And it is unfortunate that their children will be learning that that is an acceptable way to treat someone you are meant to love.

To paraphrase the famous self-help book, sometimes smart women make foolish choices about who they pick to be their partner. And it can take a lot to admit you might have chosen badly, especially where there are kids involved.

HerBeatitude · 26/10/2010 19:44

Right, so if one of the partners is an alcoholic in denial and one is an enabler in denial, but they both think they're happy, that's OK is it Bonsoir?

And if one occasionally beats the other one up, but the rest of the time they get on well and think they're happy, that's OK too then?

Wow, I never knew you were such a great fan of denial.

SolidButShamblingUndeadBrass · 26/10/2010 20:37

OK, the 'silent treatment' would worry me - that is abusive behaviour.
However, it's sadly, simply the truth that you cannot get another woman to leave a shitbag just by pointing out what a shitbag he is. It's maddening and painful to watch a lovely bright woman being ground down by an abusive man just as it's maddening and painful to watch a lovely bright funny person sink into addiction. But the truth remains - you can't change another person's behaviour. ALl you can really do is let her know that you are there, that while you don't think her H is very nice to her, what she does about that is up to her but you will be there for her if she needs you. But don't keep telling her, or she will cut you off (or he will make her cut you off - one of the most difficult things to do when you have a friend in an abusive relationship is to be civil to the abuser so as not to have him label you an Enemy Of THe Relationship and cut your friend off from you.)

Bonsoir · 26/10/2010 20:43

You really cannot go about judging other people's relationships unless they ask you for an opinion Smile. I think it is very odd behaviour to think that, just because someone else's relationship doesn't meet criteria that you think are acceptable, you should be able to pass judgement on the health and happiness of that relationship. Really: you have no idea.

Look hard, be curious, but remember that you never know how anybody else's relationship functions.

Earthymama · 26/10/2010 20:49

''And when women say enough is enough, it's time to put an end to this, instead of throwing a party and celebrating breaking a cycle, everyone commiserates and says how sorry they are that they're going through a marriage break-up and calls their family broken, when in fact it's being fixed. That stigma of lone parenting, is still incredibly strong.''

HB This is an incredibly powerful statement that has resonated with me so many years after my marriage ended.
Both of us are living the lives we have chosen and ex is happy as far as I know.
I certainly am!

OP my friend is living the same sort of life without the benefits of the money!
I just say to her, no-one should treat the person they claim to love so disrespetfully and hope she gets out eventually!!

HerBeatitude · 26/10/2010 21:14

Oh Bonsoir of course you can judge other people's relationships - you just can't tell them that you're judging them, you just tell everyone on Mumsnet instead. Grin

HerBeatitude · 26/10/2010 21:15

Thanks Earthymama, I try and say something to that effect every time divorce is mentioned, because there is too much "oh isn't it terrible" shit about break ups, when quite often, it isn't the break up that is terrible, it was the relationship, and it is a Good Thing that it's over.

ScaryFucker · 26/10/2010 21:25

gaw yeah, I have no issue with the high divorce rates in this country

in the majority of cases, it's a blessed favour to all concerned (eventually)

ScaryFucker · 26/10/2010 21:26

gawd

particularly where women divorcing men is concerned they often put up with a whole heap of shit before they call time

more's the pity

SolidButShamblingUndeadBrass · 26/10/2010 21:27

HB: I agree with you completely - some relationships are awful and the sooner they break up the better. COnversely, plenty of people can function just fine as amicable co-parents ie be civil and friendly to one another, both be involved in DC's lives and yet not be in or want to be in a couple-relationship with each other. Even moderately horrible partners can become reasonably good parents when the relationship ends.

HerBeatitude · 26/10/2010 22:17

Yes, sometimes two people just bring out the worst in each other don't they?

And of course, what we have to remember is that the first few years of our children's lives, is probably the most stressful time in our's, when we're at our worst socially, emotionally etc.. As my DC's grow up and get older, I'm finding myself so much more chilled out than at any other time of my life. So after a divorce, apart from the fact that two people may have got rid of the major irritant in their life, after a few years they too are less stressed and at a more manageable life stage. (Obv there are huge variations in this - some people's best time of their lives is in their twenties, others in their eighties. No hard and fast rules)

Unprune · 27/10/2010 10:00

Actually, I think the line about never being able to judge what's going on in another person's marriage is trite. I think it contributes to a culture which allows (and has allowed) abuse to go uncommented upon, rendering it somehow socially acceptable.

Yes, as a most basic truth, we cannot know the ins and outs of a relationship. What does that matter, really? Most of us are balanced enough to know that seeing a couple arguing once in a while isn't abnormal.

When you see one partner refusing to speak to another for 3 weeks, or belittling someone in an unamusing and unacceptable way, or (in the case of my friend) when every single person who knows them realises that there is a very unhealthy dynamic, you can make a judgement - not an ansolutely accurate one necessarily, but you can know that things are wrong enough to be concerned. I don't care if people would see that as judgemental: I feel quite strongly that observing what goes on around you and deciding how you want to live based on how much you align with other people or not is actually pretty healthy.

HerBeatitude · 27/10/2010 10:28

Actually you're right unprune, that's a very good point.

"No-one knows what goes on behind closed doors" can be a call to ignore abuse, can't it?

JessinAvalon · 27/10/2010 14:16

Absolutely agree Unprune. I remember reading, in the aftermath of my relationship, that all too often people are complicit with domestic abuse because they are wary of making a judgement.

When my ex was violent towards me in a nightclub, his friends all scattered saying that they didn't want to be involved in a "domestic". I had to rely on him to take me home that night as my car, dog, keys and money were all at his flat. He acted the big man whilst I sat there crying and one of his friends expressed sympathy with him the following week for having a "stressful" evening!

It can be difficult though when someone is involved with a partner with NPD (as I was) or a similar PD. Often the non-PD partner ends up looking the crazy one after years of constant, draining emotional abuse. This now makes me wary when someone complains to me as a male friend did recently about his wife. He had had 2 affairs whilst she had had breast cancer but claimed that he did it because she was abusive....I found that quite difficult to believe!