Talk me out of cosmetic breast surgery. I know it's indefensible.

[racetobed]

Breasts have been destroyed by pregnancy. I wouldn't mind if I had an understanding lover who saw all my goodness within etc, but I'm single and have lost all my confidence. I feel I am 35 with the body of an 85 year old

Yet I also considered myself to be a proud feminist. How, then, can I be thinking such fucking crap??

will this help?
my MIL's lovely neighbour had breast cancer and had a mastectomy so she had reconstructive surgery. One morning she woke up and found that her implant had slipped round to her back.
I honestly wouldn't have believed that if the two people involved weren't the soul of honesty.
(and if someone comes along and tells me it can't possibly be true I won't be that surprised, but for now I'm believing it.)

(sorry, I know you wanted proper feminist arguments )

Hi racetobed,

Scary stuff:

Terrible things can happen under general anaesthetic. Every time you have one you are at risk of dying. OK if you are trying to get rid of cancer, but really, for vanity?

Terrible things can happen with implants. Read about it. They don?t have to slide around the back to cause all kinds of problems.

If you stick loads of extra crap in your chest, you might miss signs of breast cancer, which when spotted early is very treatable.

Positive stuff about not:

Think what better things you could do with the money. If you spent the relevant amount on a couple of good bras, a hair cut and some lovely clothes, you would look equivalently better, but on the outside so everyone can appreciate it (instead of it only being noticeable when you take your clothes off).

Think what better things you could do with the time. If you can arrange a week off, spend it by a pool reading, or whatever else you would like to do, not bleeding and groaning in agonising pain.

Fake breasts look naff. You would look tragic like a man with a comb-over. I bet yours are lovely.

Also, you don?t want to be involved with the sort of man who thinks 35 year olds should have breasts like hard plastic.

I considered breast implants and saw a plastic surgeon who actually talked me out of it.

There are better ways to work on your self-esteem.

My husband - who is lush - would not go near a fake boob, they make him cringe and he has no respect for women who do it (other than reconstructive surgery )

So, are you after a Peter Andre type or someone else?

Loads more things will boost your confidence. Do some other things for yourself first. Then, if you're still not convinced in a year or so you still have option to do it.

ooh great post vezzie!

I would add that most men IMO only think of two kinds of breasts: "breasts" and "fantastic breasts". If things are as bad as you think (and I bet you millions that they aren't), then the worst that can happen is that yours are only "breasts" i.e. still a very very welcome thing to see :)

I would bet that tiredness, not enough time out having fun, and a dearth of new people to meet & talk to are making you feel this bad. Not your poor scape-boobs. How many baby-sitters/nights out could you afford for the cost of a boob-job?

My friend's GF had a boob-job and when people find out (not via her I might add), they all make this face and wonder why on earth she was sad enough/thought so little of herself as to put herself through it. You don't want people pitying you like that.

Also plastic surgery is a way of (mainly) men making money by torturing women until they fit an ideal that society has pushed at you. And then when people go to the logical extreme and have loads of plastic surgery done, the media is there to look down on them, shake their heads sadly and tut-tut for being so "vain". Don't play their gruesome game, keep your body whole, and get some fun organised.

What else would improve your life, boob job aside?

racetobed, how long since you had your baby/stopped breastfeeding? If bfeeding, did you stop suddenly or do child-led weaning over a long period?

Because your breasts will 'recover' a lot over a couple of years or so after weaning/birth if ff, as fat comes back in to replace the milky bits (sorry for over-technical explanation).

Of course, your youngest might be 10, if so, please see other excellent posts.

Dying because of anaesthetic is rare. But it happens and it could be you.

How would your DC/s cope if it happened to you? Do you think it would be different after the procedure you're considering, as compared to a medically necessary one?

I agree about the bf. Mine took over a year to recover but now don't look all that different to pre-preg.

It's so difficult though. We're conditioned not to accept aging/any body changes outside a closely defined "norm" (and it's a so-called norm that's not normal, in as much as very few people match up to it).

The fact is, underneath their clothes most women probably look like you do. Only a few women actually go ahead and get implants/surgery. Your idea of what a 35yr old's breasts should look like is utterly warped by a) the media and b) the way other women look with their clothes on.

But it's easy for me to say with a dh who still thinks my breasts are fantastic. Much harder for you to appreciate your own beauty. And you are beautiful

Oh, I knew the wisdom of feminism would save me!

You're right, you're all right. And I'm not really so demoralised - I was actually feeling quite good about myself, then went and got myself measured in a fancy bra shop a few hours ago. I just felt so horrified by what was in the mirror under the unforgiving overhead lights- droopy, fatless, shriveled-up non-boobs. Even the shop assistant seemed shocked by them (though she did a good job of then pretending not to be). Still, I know they look better when there's a bit of a breeze going or I'm feeling randy

Then I got talking to another mum who'd had one of those evil fat redepositing 'procedures' in which they suck out your bum fat and inject it in your boobs and ridiculously, found myself thinking, well if that what it takes....

But ultimately, I think it's immoral on so many levels....not just a feminist one, as many of you have pointed out. Not least those who know people who have had cancer

And MavisG- I only stopped bfing six weeks ago so you have given me hope!

Thanks sisters!

to come back to your OP:
'Yet I also considered myself to be a proud feminist. How, then, can I be thinking such fucking crap?'
because you're a feminist and a woman.... still part of the world, exposed to all its influences many of which are aimed at making women feel shit about their physical appearance.
Feminism can help you to ward off some of the shittier stuff, IME, and find strategies for avoiding it, but it's not like a Teflon suit that stops it all sticking.

It does help you to see through the myths like plastic surgery being a magic bullet, though

Within six months you would probably be back to the same level of happiness you were at before the surgery.

Unless it goes wrong, in which case you would be less happy.

x-post.

btw my MIL had breast cancer years ago and didn't have reconstructive surgery so she has only had one breast for years (and you have 2!) but it hasn't stopped her being happy.

Donda West - Kanye West's mum - died after a breast op because she had an underlying heart complaint. He wrote this for her before she died, makes me very :( to listen to it now. You really don't want your DC to be mourning you over something like this.

I had major fat loss in my breasts caused by bf. It really has changed, albeit over quite a long period.

I remember wearing the 34F bra I needed but looking at the empty top halves of the cups and not feeling good about my body. Cups are pretty much full now though so no buttock fat (boak!) required.

6 weeks is naff all.

I've a mate who had one fast-producing breast, one slow, her children preferred the fast and she ended up with one massive - mahooosive - boob and one teeny one. 2 years post-stopping: they're near enough how they were pre-preg.

If you stopped fairly suddenly then they're bound to feel all empty and saggy. Take a photo of them now and hide it, then take another in 3 months. Compare. You'll see you're on the road to nice boobs again.

(And whatever they see on TV, for all but the shallowest fellas a boob in the hand is - well, I'll stop there)

PS if you wanted to (and of course you may not) you could see if your child's up for going back to bfing. They'd fill back up again then and you could either postpone the day they empty again or go for child-led weaning, which is so gradual they'll have the chance to lay some of the fat down as you go.

(This is one of my shallow reasons for natural term bfing. This, cake-eating and avoiding household chores.)

read this

look at these real women

stop reading tabloid papers/tv/glossy mags!

you are beautiful

Why is it indefensible?

You arent looking to get bigger breasts so your thinking for having them is sound. If it will repair your self image then go for it.

Make sure its a good UK surgeon, costs a lot, and with followup meetings each year included in the price.

I'm pretty sure you wont die under anesthetic

changed me mind, you should get really big ones then if you're lucky people like CCPCCP might fancy you.

oh, on second thoughts....

I recommend joining a gym - you see all kinds of boobs in the changing rooms.

Some random thoughts...

I don't know much about 'fat from your arse' implants, but normal ones only have a lifespan of 10-15 years iirc. That means that, if you have implants aged 35, you are signing on for a lifetime of repeat surgery.

I also wonder what the women with implants will look like at 75, when everything else has aged and there are two implant 'rocks' in the middle of their chest.

On the financial front, if you are a single mum then, unless you are very well off, I imagine that money could go to something more positive for you and the kids? And if you were thinking of a loan, won't that be a financial strain?

Do also remember that your perception of naked breasts is madly skewed by what society shows you - which is largely pornified implants. Normal ones don't look like that.

Finally, if you meet a new man, the first time he sees your naked boobs (assuming you play it right), he will be anticipating having sex with you for the first time. I can almost guarantee that what is going through his mind that point is 'way-hay, we're about to have sex' (or some varient of that) and not 'ooh, those boobs don't look like the ones in magazines'.

Oh, sorry, one more thing. I don't know if your DC is a boy or a girl, but 'what message do I want to send my daughter' puts a lot of questions in perspective for me.

A very good very wonderful and very beautiful friend of mine used to go out with a man who manipulated her insecurities about her small breasts to the extent where she thought that the solution was a boob job, and took out a loan to have one.

Luckily she suddenly saw sense, realised that this bloke was a cock of the highest order, left him and spent the money traveling around the world for a year having brilliant mind-expanding experiences. She now really happy in a relationship with someone who adores every part of her. To think that if she'd taken the other route she might still be stuck with that bell-end and two bags of silicon gives me shudders.

I know this is a different situation to yours, but I think that sometimes our perspective about one element of our whole complex wonderful being gets bent out of shape - a little while down the line and our perspective might be balanced again.

Your breasts don't define you as a sexual woman - I've already decided that if I have breast cancer, I will have a double mastectomy and no reconstruction, even with reconstruction there would be no nipple sensitivity so what's the point?
My husband will love me and fancy me just the same.

Are you prepared to lose the sensation in your breasts for the sake of having them look good ?

Thanks Seth. Think you might be a bit too old for me though. And maybe the wrong sex.

Read a little more of the posts. racetobed said:

"My friend's GF had a boob-job and when people find out (not via her I might add), they all make this face and wonder why on earth she was sad enough/thought so little of herself as to put herself through it. "

This is pretty true. UK attitudes lag the US by 10 years and you would be a relatively early adopter. Well done surgery is very difficult to tell from a good bra, but there will always be some jealous 'friend' who drops it into every new conversation. Until you spot the back stabbers and bin them, you might as well wear a hat with 'boobjob' written on it.