A challenge to Mumsnet

[BitOfFun]

I am posting and running, as I am having a break this weekend, but thought I would flag this up for you all first, as it's interesting:

liberalconspiracy.org/2010/10/14/a-challenge-to-mumsnet/#comment-185859

The comments have kicked off an interesting debate on the 'Let Girls Be Girls' campaign.

Thank you! I thought it was very apt at this point.

'Concern Troll' - really? Do you think anyone could mistake me for someone who actually gave a shit?

Seriously, where have I feigned concern for the issue at hand? This isn't to say that I condone the sexualisation of children. I probably don't agree that it is such an important social problem as you do, but I cant say that I oppose your aims. If I have an issue with anything, its your methods.

I think it is profoundly illiberal to impose your view of how children should or, in this case, should not be dressed.

TBH I don't care if it's illiberal to say that 8 year olds shouldn't be wearing basques and stilletoes.

I'm obviously not a liberal.

'I cant say that I oppose your aims. If I have an issue with anything, its your methods. ' (David StH)

'They are known by their brand, 'I agree with your ends but not your means.''
(Jess's link on 'concern trolls')

"[Do nothings]....are known by their brand..."I agree with your ends but not your means"."

Ha ha SSAMR.....we had the same thought at the same time!

I don't think its illiberal to say it.

I see I have walked into your trap! Why did you need an excuse to ignore me anyway?

OK. I tend not to engage when a member appears on a forum, posting in a suspiciously male-ovolent fashion, ina snipey, attention-seeking way. I regard it as the rhetorical equivalent of flashing: Sad mixture of aggression and desperate wish to get women's attention.

But, just in case anyone else is reading, it's worth pointing out that:

wrt to

1. "This isn't to say that I condone the sexualisation of children. I probably don't agree that it is such an important social problem as you do, but I cant say that I oppose your aims. If I have an issue with anything, its your methods."

As others (Claig, Sakura, Sethstarkadder'smum, StewieGriffin'sMum) have already pointed out: It's not an either/or. Many of us, my goodness, manage to be involved in several campaigns (multi-tasking, and all that).
If you don't think it's important, why in heaven's bother your little head about it? why not just throw yourself into what does concern you?
Or do you just really, really need to tell the girlies to stop doing what they're doing and do what you want us to do instead?

I'm guessing Bill Gates can hardly move for all those e-mails you send him, telling him that his campaing to stop polio is not as important as ... uh ... what, exactly? What is it that you are doing?

Other, that is, than tapping away furiously telling the girlies they're silly?

1. "I think it is profoundly illiberal to impose your view of how children should or, in this case, should not be dressed."

The naïveté of this view is so profound as to be (almost) touching.

Clearly, you live in a parrallel, flopsy-bunny world, and have unwittingly strayed into ours. Bless.

In your world, children wander from store to store, where angels allow them to choose from shelves of gaily coloured vestments, and they are free to express their dreams. In fact, they go into little bowers, where fairies divine their dreams and fantasies, and run up little outfits accordingly.

Sadly, in our world, shitty sexist norms are reproduced in the world of clothing, and the illiberalism is imposed at the level of consumer so-called choice. ie. resistance is resistance.

Tough shit if you mis-perceive that as illiberal.

oh well said Animula!

David, have you ever wandered down the aisles of little girls' clothes in the supermarket? (You don't need to answer that question.) It is all bloody pink!
There was a thread the other day about someone having trouble finding jeans to fit her 9 year old daughter because they were all too tight around the thigh.

Somebody is imposing their view of how our children should be dressed, and for those without a sewing machine and who can't afford to shop in lovely wholesome organic fairtrade small-scale retailers, there is a distinct lack of choice.

I think I will move to Animula's fluffy bunny world as soon as I can afford the toadstool with doors and windows house price.

Oh, I see now - you are just trying to correct a market failure. Silly me.

Mine isn't yet 2, and I already shop for jeans in the boys aisle (thankfully, at this age they're cut the same) to avoid the flower appliques.

I'm very glad you've given up your precious time to come here and tell us that you do not give a shit about this issue in the slightest, David. That's a very important contribution to the conversation. Gosh, it makes me wonder how we manage to have any conversations without male input, really.

That is a splendid post, Animula.

But we know that the market is even better than fairies, don't we, its invisible hand brushing lovingly against our cheeks.

I have quite a few jeans which are cut for girls even when they're for toddlers and babies - there was one pair of red cords where I only noticed how curvy it was when we put it on ds1 and it made him suddenly look delightfully 1970s! Which was cute, but it was because they were so tight round the bottom and flarey.

great post animula

Can we just run up a load of stickers saying "Why don't you get on with it then?" and apply them whenever someone starts tut-tutting over what we're actually doing, and tells us what we should be doing instead?

"Instead" really is the hallmark of these people isn't it? Imagine how terribly difficult their lives must be. They'll be mid-hoover and suddenly think "haang on, why am I doing the hoovering when the toilet needs cleaning instead?". Off they trot to the bathroom (leaving a half-done floor with hoover in the middle) and start scrubbing away at the bog when - whoops - another idea occurs to them! What the hell is the point of toilet cleaning when the dog needs walking instead? Abandoning the toilet brush mid-pan they scarper out of the door and leg it down the road with the puzzled pooch, but before they reach the end of the park they suddenly remember - what about telling someone else what to do online? That is the priority, so they abandon the dog to live wild in the park trailing its lead, and scamper home to go onto LC or MN and tell us all what to do.

LOL EvilAnts....though it has to be said, abandoning toilet cleaning in favour of telling someone what to do online is fairly typical of my day.
(but usually I only tell them when they have asked)

ROFL unfortunately, apart from the bit at the end you are more or less describing my housekeeping routine E&M.

No wonder there are so many wild dogs roaming this country! [hgrin]

So basically we need to channel the tunnel-vision concern trolls' energies into housework? Or something else?

David, I am very worried that you think the best way to persuade us to your way of thinking is to post on here advising us. Why aren't you doing a sponsored sodoff walk to raise money for Rape Crisis? Then come back and we'll all be overawed by your wonderfulness and agree with you willy-nilly.

I'm not a liberal, I'm a communist. Wot on earth has being a liberal got to do with the price of fish?

I don'T like the premature sexualisation of children. IF that makes me 'not a liberal', so what?
Liberalism, individualism- it all serves the elite anyway: rich, white males.