What do you do if your DM/family has very different ideas on a women's role to you?

[AbsofCroissant]

I've been wondering about this, about who's example you follow and how you cope with comments/expectations if your DM and family have a very different idea of what a women's role is to you?

My DM has a very "traditional" view on things and we had a really uncomfortable conversation recently. I don't have DCs, am in a very serious relationship, and DP and I have discussed DCs etc. I am a professional - studied for 7 years, have a very good job with excellent prospects. The other day I went to visit my parents, and my DM and I started having a discussion. She asked me if I would continue working once I've had DCs. I said I didn't know for sure, but knowing me, I said I would probably be happier continuing working (considering I spent 7 years studying to get here ...). She then asked if I wanted DCs, I said yes, and then she said "well, I think it was much better back in the day when women would quit working once they had children". She also said that she thinks companies will, and should, stop having part-time positions for working mothers. We were then discussing my cousin, who stopped working once she had DC as 1) she lives in a country where getting C-suitable hours are very difficult) 2) her DH's job is very demanding, but well paid and 3) her oldest DC had learning difficulties, so she spent a lot of time working with him to help him. I know, having spoken to my cousin, that she would actually like to have a job (especially now that her DCs are getting older), but it's very difficult to get one. DM's view is that what cousin does is correct- work until you marry, and then quit.

What I'm wondering is how do people cope with this? Do you find an alternative role model? I totally agree that if a woman wants to be a SAHM and is able to, then she should totally go for it (my one SIL is one), same as if a man wants to be a SAHD, then he should be able to do so (before anyone shouts me down on that front). My DM is totally delusional about this - she truly believes that all woman should stop working once they have DCs, and doesn't believe that this doesn't/can't always happen. I was discussing it with DP last night - his DM never stopped working for more than 6 months at at time, because his parents needed the money. DM only started working again after DF had been out of work for years - I am angry about that actually. We nearly lost the house, us DCs had to go without a lot of things and have a lot of hassle, just because she wants to live up to a delusional 1950s stereotype.

Sorry it's so long and grambly

Abs - saw on the othert hread when you say that your family didn't have much money, and your mum didn't want to get a job becauase she wanted to be at home.

My mum didn't raise me, I got to know her when I was in my teens. I had my dd quite young, and went to work FT when she was 3 months, and also studied for a degree.

My mother, even though she had no place imo to judge, NEVER stopped making comments about how i was career obsessed, selfish, money grubbing, etc and that women should stay at home when they had kids. She stayed at home on income support until my brother was 16.

We just had such different views on the subject - fair enough I can have a debate with anyone on the merits of working or not, but she was so nasty and judgemental about it. It is really very hard when someone pulls you to bits like this on a decision you have made.

I guess it's just been bugging me a lot recently, especially as a couple of weeks ago I found out some terrible news about a friend. She and her Dc's father aren't together, he's married someone else and is suing for full custody, saying that his new wife would make a better mother than my friend is because she's "career obsessed" (read - she has a job to pay for clothes, accomodation, education etc. for her DC). DM's response on this was "I don't get why these girls get themselves pregnant".

Thanks GetOrf.

I have to say - I've seen you talk about your career and stuff and raising your DD on MN, and I really admire you (but wouldn't want to put it in an wanky thread).

Delusional is the word. Ignore her. It doesn't sound like her attitude on this issue was a helpful influence when you were growing up. It's likely to get even more irritating when you do have children.

My mother always told me that being a SAHM was a privilege, not a right and I agree even more now that I have my own daughter. If couples can afford, and are both happy for, one partner not to work outside the home, then good luck to them. It suits some families well but isn't for everyone.

Most working-class women always had to work to some extent, even if it was taking in washing, mending, or similarly low-paid, home-based activities. The 1950s stereotype just didn't apply to many families even then.

My DH was recently unemployed for a year. Luckily, I have a secure job, earn more than him anyway, have the mortgage in my name and based solely on my income, and we were able to scrape by until he found another job, with me paying all bills, childcare costs, food etc... (He owes me big time now!)

I can't believe that people like your DM would actually argue that I would have set a better example to DD if I quit work, lost our home, lived on state benefits in low-rent housing and spent my time cooking, cleaning and resenting DH for not providing for us.

Ugh. I'm appalled by the idea. My mother would be appalled and I'm reasonably sure that my grandmother (divorced when my mother was a baby) and great-grandmother (widowed with 13 children when the youngest was 5 days old) would also have been appalled.

I'm proud of my ability to provide for my daughter.

Can you tell her that women have always worked? There really was no "back in the day" (except for a brief fashion in the 1950s but still restricted to the well-off) and women have always earned money to support their children.

My mum works, her mum worked (Navy & office work), her mum worked (housekeeper), her mum worked (domestic work and taking in washing). That takes my maternal line back to the 1890s. The difference is that these days you (personally) don't need to work your knuckles to the bone clearing up other people's messes, but instead you have a job where you are respected and setting a good example to your DC.

EAM, I'm from a family of working women too, and proud of it.

Maybe you should point out that the "good old days" (even though they never really existed) also involved women being beaten, raped, bred like dogs and finally cracking up with frustration.

No thanks.

I always quote this, but Julie Burchill wrote about her mum working. She said she never questioned it because her dad said "If your mum didn't work she'd go mad - you wouldn't want your mum to go mad now would you?" :o

Yip - tried that. Even quoted statistics and such like, discussed examples, but she has a very set idea of how things are "supposed" to be, which is based on actually a narrow and unusual upbringing (1950s South Africa as a middle class white - so relatively privileged position, most households with only one earner, domestic servants, decent sized house etc).

TBH Abs it sounds like you are pretty sorted, so why not just say "mm" and ignore. Or laugh it off - oh dear I've gone through that timeslip into the 1950s again.

NOT suitable for your mum but I was talking to a horrible vicious sexist old tosser the other day, and I said "talking to you is making me feel really positive about the future", when he asked why I said "because the kind of bigoted people who think like you will be dead soon".

I think the best way to handle it is to take a deep breath, count to 10, and say "Well, we'll have to agree to differ on that one" or some other "stuck record" phrase. Not much point having an argument about it, or trying to convince her that she's wrong, if she's that set in her ideas. But equally you don't have to follow her example - plenty of women are out there living their lives the opposite of their own mothers.

AmumInScotland - totally agree. You may well not be able to change her, so I'd focus on what you do agree on and not engage with the stuff you don't. I wouldn't necessarily do that for other people, but for my mum I would.

I'm a stay at home mum and my best friend is a works full time mum.we see it from both sides,and neither side is ideal or perfect.Be careful that if you do have children,you make the decision from how you really feel,even if that means staying at home,because you may find you want to;but it really doesn't matter,because there really is no ideal situation,and I think its wrong for your mother to suggest there is.people that age can be set in there ways;there is no point wasting energy trying to change them;just make a quick exit when the subject comes up.

Even though I have always worked (professional qualified etc). Parents in Law continued to see DHs job as being the important one, mine was just for pin money. This continued until DH stopped work to look after DCs.

Even now, they still dont quite get it. I am a woman and therefore do women's work but we have a nice house, take holidays etc. In PiLs eyes this doesnt compute. They have absolutely no idea what I do even though DH and I have been together for more than 20 years!

My mum was a sahm all her life, but came from a farm where it was all hands on deck, no different from a family business really, with plenty of work for all, all the time. My granny was raised by her widowed stepmother, who ran her own farm, hired and fired workmen, organised the money and dealt with banks etc. Mum still manages to come out with that 'she got herself pregnant' phrase , but she's also able to see the wisdom and rightness of women being allowed to work after marriage (in Ireland this wasn't the case until the 70s in the civil service, maybe some other areas too, if not by law then by custom). She has what she calls a practical spin on it though, advising choosing a career that can be combined easily with care of children, or something you could do from home, as she assumes childcare would be the primary responsibility of the mother.

I think historically speaking, most women worked, with only the very rich exempted, but it was seen as something of a 'have to work' situation, second best for both the women and their children.

My approach with these things is either
a) join in but be so ridiculous about it that the other party look extremely stupid
b) throw in some facts, figures and historical accuracies, which make the other party look extremely stupid
or c) make light of it, with a comment like "Good heavens! I thought they stopped making people like you!!"

My mum often tells me to have DP's dinner ready for him when he gets home. DP and I laugh because, how ridiculous does that sound? I'm not a SAHM btw and this isn't the 50s which incidentally is when she was born.

I just say 'mmm' and change the subject, or just say we'll cook dinner together when we both get home from work.

Gay40 - I usually go for (a).

"you can't expect DH to look after the children on his own all day!"

"oh my goodness, you're right! he is far too busy skinning the mammoth that he speared this morning to keep an eye on the baby!"

or similar

My mother is a bit like this. I decided my father was a much better role model! She used to throw out ridiculous stuff, like how terribly 'sad' it was when one of her friend's daughters decided to go back to work and their husband decided to look after the children. I can't remember if I had children at that point, but she would have known perfectly well that I had no intention of being a SAHM. Fast forward a few years on and my dh is a SAHD, and my mother is always asking me when he is going to find work again, and whether he is happy. I doubt that she'd be saying the same things to me.

I just ignore and change the subject. In her defense she really enjoyed being at home with us and does genuinely think it's a great choice, she's just not terribly good at recognising that just because it was right for her it might not be right for everyone.

Oh, and one advantage of working is that you are likely to come across older women some of whom may be inspiring role models. I've certainly met a few.

"When is he going to find work again?"

LOL. I can totally sympathise with this. Even though my dad was himself a SAHD since I was 9 years old (and my sisters were 7 and 3) he always asks me when my husband is planning to go back to work- we have a 5y old and are expecting no. 2 next year.
I earn a pretty good income- the kind of level at which if he was earning nobody would think to ask me if I was planning to work, ever!
Anyway, for now we have a puppy so it's a good excuse for my dad to tell him that he can't leave the dog alone all day (my dad is the kind of person who would make an overseas trip to see the dog but not his grandchild(ren).)

Lol. We did the puppy too, and my mother (who loves dogs but can't have one right now because her arthritis is so bad) felt that was somethign of an excuse, but very definitely an understandable one

I think for some women - my MIL for example - they're frustrated that they didn't get the chance to make the choices we've made, and are therefore a bit defensive about it. My MIL stopped working when she had my DH and never worked again, and I think she now feels that it was a mistake. And, horribly, it's now too late to do anything about it as she's past retirement age.

In contrast to some other posters, both she and my mum (who did carry on working) have been very good about not questioning my choices. In a way, my MIL is a negative role model for me - how I DON'T want to end up. But if she ever did say anything that sounded judgey, I think I would listen with a compassionate ear - her views are as much a reflection on her own experience as it is on mine.

Thanks Abs for the lovely comment

I don't think you can change people's opinion - like you say Abs your mum's SAHM views were borne out of what was (presumably) the norm in SA at the time. Now we are lucky to live in a time where both SAHM, PT working and FT working are all viewed as equal choices, dependent on a person's circumstance and preference. So, she will never change her viewpoint I don't think. However you CAN influence how it affects you. From the start I think you need to point oput calmly that her opinion should be kept to herself. I used to just fume at what mum said to me, go home and cry with frustration. Looking back I should have said 'I don't appreciate comments like that. Do not pass judgement on my choices' and repeated it until she bloody stopped. As it was she knew she was getting to me and stepped up the comments.