What do you do if your DM/family has very different ideas on a women's role to you?

[AbsofCroissant]

I've been wondering about this, about who's example you follow and how you cope with comments/expectations if your DM and family have a very different idea of what a women's role is to you?

My DM has a very "traditional" view on things and we had a really uncomfortable conversation recently. I don't have DCs, am in a very serious relationship, and DP and I have discussed DCs etc. I am a professional - studied for 7 years, have a very good job with excellent prospects. The other day I went to visit my parents, and my DM and I started having a discussion. She asked me if I would continue working once I've had DCs. I said I didn't know for sure, but knowing me, I said I would probably be happier continuing working (considering I spent 7 years studying to get here ...). She then asked if I wanted DCs, I said yes, and then she said "well, I think it was much better back in the day when women would quit working once they had children". She also said that she thinks companies will, and should, stop having part-time positions for working mothers. We were then discussing my cousin, who stopped working once she had DC as 1) she lives in a country where getting C-suitable hours are very difficult) 2) her DH's job is very demanding, but well paid and 3) her oldest DC had learning difficulties, so she spent a lot of time working with him to help him. I know, having spoken to my cousin, that she would actually like to have a job (especially now that her DCs are getting older), but it's very difficult to get one. DM's view is that what cousin does is correct- work until you marry, and then quit.

What I'm wondering is how do people cope with this? Do you find an alternative role model? I totally agree that if a woman wants to be a SAHM and is able to, then she should totally go for it (my one SIL is one), same as if a man wants to be a SAHD, then he should be able to do so (before anyone shouts me down on that front). My DM is totally delusional about this - she truly believes that all woman should stop working once they have DCs, and doesn't believe that this doesn't/can't always happen. I was discussing it with DP last night - his DM never stopped working for more than 6 months at at time, because his parents needed the money. DM only started working again after DF had been out of work for years - I am angry about that actually. We nearly lost the house, us DCs had to go without a lot of things and have a lot of hassle, just because she wants to live up to a delusional 1950s stereotype.

When I was pregnant with DS my DM said
"well you might think now that you want to go out to work but once the baby's here, you wont want to leave him". I started applying for jobs when DS was 3 weeks old.

my step father has the same type of opinions - berates women with kids as being harsh and career minded (he's chilled a bit since we've had hours, H reduced his hours, but he basically obides by the same thoughts)

funny thing is he always talks about the men in the same relationships as being "good providers", it's a huge issue for him - as if a family's honour is dependant on the incoming coming from the half of a couple which happens to have a penis, and anything other than that setup is "wrong" and unnatural

i'm glad i don't have to listen to that crap any more

as far as i'm concerned as long as the kids are healthy, happy, and between us we are providing enough love and support, and income to support our family, anyone judging that can just go away

H and I both went down to 3 days a week each at number 1's arrival (grandma's on Wednesdays) - i gave up trying to explain that this made us much happier as a couple eventually, he didn't get the idea at all.... but would have said H was a "good provider" if he only ever saw the kids on the weekends after working 5 long days a week

stupid mentality

MIL once told me she thought it was brilliant that I was working full time while also studying, with a DS, a house and a husband!
Pleased to say DH laughed when I told him that. Then told me to fetch his slippers.

every time i see this thread i read it as: "What do you do if the DM / your family has very different ideas on a women's role to you?"

Keep thinking "bloody right the DM's got very different ideas on women's role!"

I've been in the same situation for years, despite my degree and career achievements, my mother's proudest moment was when I became a SAHM for a couple of years. In a roundabout fashion this led to the breakdown of my marriage and exH diverted his salary into a sole account, leaving me penniless. I think this is the biggest risk of being a SAHP and my advice to any SAHP is to at least keep your skills up to date, do voluntary work, do anything to keep yourself employable, you never know when your DH/W might leave you high and dry. Of course people such as your DM often believe they are immune to such possibilities. Even now, subconsciously I have a deepseated desire to please my mother, (which actually is quite easy, I just tell her about the ironing I've done or the victoria sponge I've made).

I agree with another poster that women of your DM's age can be a bit envious of the choices women have today.

The thing I've found hardest is that everyday situations, eg dc being a difficult, getting detention, are viewed as total vindication of her viewpoint, as if these things never affect SAHMs.

Haven't read the whole thing but I guess there is a point in most people's lives when they realise that their parents are not actually the people they would choose for role models. (and actually people who think their parents are right about everything and want to live their lives in exactly the same way are creepy)

Oh yes very much to the 'defensive of choices they made' thing. Especially when they didn't even realise there was a choice at the time (or sadly there really may not have been a choice).

I find in any situation where there is a binary choice, once people have picked one (even if they previously thought that option B was alright) they immediately go into 'option A is the only choice, eveyrone else is wrong'. I think it is a defense mechanism against doubts or fears of having made the wrong choice - insisting that not only is option A the right choice for you but it is the right choice for everybody.

TrillianAstra, there was a thread about cognative dissonance on here a while ago, I wish i'd bookmarked it. Anyway I googled it, and you should read the Wikipedia page about it - it describes exactly what you're talking about. The Fox and The Grapes, etc

Thanks frgr, that's a good fable. The difference with what I'm saying is that the fox couldn't get the grapes. I'm thinking more of a situation where the fox could have chosen grapes, but instead chose plums, then when he sees someone else picking grapes he says 'grapes are rubbish, why would anyone pick grapes?'

In the 1950s and 60s it was also more possible for women to give up their jobs on marriage/children as homes could be bought and run on one salary, by and large. Surely a partnership where both parents are responsible for providing financially and taking care of the children is much better than a marriage where one person is totally financially dependent on the other?

A familiar problem for me, but with my in-laws, rather than my own parents. My parents have no strong views on the SAHM vs. WOHM debate. My father thinks if you're a bright woman and/or like working then there's nothing wrong with working if you can get the right childcare. I think he actually resented the financial pressure we had growing up because my mother didn't want to work. My mother was a SAHM but did work for 10 years before she got married and has always said it's important to have your own money in life but is not a big fan of women working long hours and leaving their children in a creche either. I suppose she would prefer me to have a part-time job or one that suits childcare (no kids yet, despite significant TTC so that one hasn't really come to a head yet). They are both from farming and business backgrounds where work was always a family effort and women contributed as much as men, just on different tasks e.g. feeding chickens, milking, cooking rather than harvesting, driving a tractor or digging.

My in-laws on the other hand - god give me strength! None of my BILs' wives work, one of them has never EVER had a job, despite being the same age as me. My MIL has never worked either beyond a couple of years after she left school. She always says 'there's nothing wrong with women working if they want to. I just don't know how they do it all!' - breezy laugh - with the implication being that they don't really do it all, do they? Those poor children are neglected. My FIL is the worst though. I have had numerous arguments with him on this issue. One time, I complained about some badly behaved children at a ski resort we'd been to and he said 'well, you know why. All these women out working, that's where all these hooligans and juvenile delinquents come from' . I pointed out to him that children who end up in prison or youth facilities often come from homes where no-one in three or four generations has had a job, let alone the women in the family but the SAHM thing is like a religious obssession with him.

Both PILs are convinced that their darling sons have turned out so well (only one of them did in my opinion, my DH... ) because my MIL was at home full-time. Funny that, because my DH only ever remembers his mother fixing him pot noodles or fish fingers for tea and then shooing him out the door to 'go and play' so she could eat cake and watch her soaps and telling him not to bother her with his homework. Still, I'm sure her actual physical presence in the house made a big, big difference...

Luckily my DH is a total feminist, like me, and he backs me up. I have learnt now that there is no point in arguing logic with these people who have such uninformed views because they don't get it and they probably never will. As the DC thing is not happening for us right now (just had an MMC), then it's not a burning issue. But I'm sure some day it'll rear its ugly head. It does stress me out but if they ever got really unbearable about it, I would just have some frank words and tell them to keep their opinions to themselves from that point onwards. They will never listen to reason. One thing you could do with your DM, since she's your mother, is say to her that if she is so concerned, why doesn't she take charge of caring for your DCs when you have them? She can be a SAHGranny and give up her retirement if she loves it so much!

I think views can also change as people get older. My DM, who I've always seen as a bit of a feminist icon as she worked full-time while bringing us up, recently said to me when I was talking about job-hunting "of course you won't be able to work that many hours, as you need to be there for the children" !

The only way to counter these kinds of opinions is to go on your merry way and do whatever you want to do and show people that it's possible for it to work.

It's none of your DM's business what you do when you have kids tbh and you don't have to justify your decisions to her. Hopefully you will just arrange your family / work / childcare set up to suit you, your DP and your DC and get on with it. And hopefully she will see that it is possible to be a working mother without the world crashing down around your ears.