Should we apologise?

[orsinian]

When I left school, in the early 1980s, I worked for a while in West Germany, right at the height of the Cold War. At the time there were Europe-wide demos against Cruise and Pershing missiles. Whilst I worked in the country I came into contact with plenty of activists, and in due course (well actually quite a few years later) I started calling myself a feminist.

And in the course of the intervening years I've been pretty proud of the movement, with just a few exceptions (the SCUM manifesto for instance).

In the last few months though, particularly when talking to some new female students in Bradford, I'm finding the subject of one of the more embarrassing moments in history is coming up, more and more regularly, and it isn't referencing feminism in a positive fashion.

I'm writing about SRA - Satanic Ritual Abuse, from the late 1980s and 90s. It pretty much passed me by all that time ago, really 'cos I wasn't back in England until the mid-nineties.

But the subject won't go away, and I'm sick to death of hearing the accusation that feminism colluded with christian fundamentalism during the 'witch-hunt' years, and I'm really sick of hearing that idea from student historians and social scientists who are studying the subject in scary detail.

I don't want to start a thread about the existence or not of SRA-there's more than enough on the subject on the Web (try for instance 'feminists satanic ritual abuse' in Google).

No, what I want to ask is, how do we, a generation or two after the events of the 80s and 90s, get a line drawn under all of it? It had nothing to do with feminists of my age and those who followed.

In Germany, I remember that young Germans hated being associated with a generation who had made their mistakes 30-odd years ago previously. If mistakes were made during the SRA years, why should later feminists be expected to be associated with those errors?

I know its a distasteful subject, and I know it stirs emotions. If you think though it will remain just a background hum, then you will be sadly mistaken. The subject, judging by the stuff on the Web, isn't going to go away anytime soon.

ooh, does this mean we get the AMERICANS to apologise? Bags Paris Hilton goes first.

I don't know what it is but we seem to have quite a lot of people appear on here (feminist section) from the US with one-off and sometimes peculiar posts. it's great if people from other countries want to come and talk on here but as a UK site I don't think that people can or should presuppose that we have a full understanding of everything that is going on or has gone on everywhere else in the world.

But I think that's one of the irritating sweet things about Americans, many of them are totally enveloped in the world of US history and politics (even more than we are in ours) and the idea that we don't know what the Tea Party is or what happened at the Battle of Wounded Knee or whatever is completely

if the Americans have to apologise for something then presumably we also have to blame the Canadians, for not stopping the Americans.
Oh, and the Mexicans must apologise too. How could they have let America go ahead and do what it did?

the more im thinking about this-the more pissed off i am.
who exactly think should appoligise[as you must be thinking this or you wouldnt be putting the thread up]

i remember this[i hadnt just left school]

and at this time-i was running around trying my best to help others-[ok it was in a small way but every bit helps]

we was trying to help women who was experiancing DV-
we was setting up safe spaces for women who was lesbians.

we was setting up groups for women who were addicted to the "shut up and take one of these and youll be ok i have no time for you drugs by the jolly ol male gp][halcion/valium]

yep-i do remember these attroshitys-
but i cant remember any feminist that was ok with this.
i did think at first that it was the cause of over zealous social workers-but then realised there was more to it than this.

so-no-i dont think feminists should appologise-what for?

despite what i am-when i woke up-ive always been a feminist-and im proud of this.
despite having very little education-i can still see the wrongness of patriarcy[used to call it society]

i for one is not going to appologise for the wrongness of Patriarcy-

who are you really op?
you come here with youre big words-
youre words are not so big now.

if you come here to stir-you may have come to the wrong place.

no doubt you will ignore this-
as my words are not as big as youres
its a shame really-patriarcy rules eh?

still looking forward to as why you come here and said what you did.

i forgot to add-
i actually find it offensive.
when i look back and see how it was-
then i look at now-and we re still bloody fighting-
and someone comes along and asks should feminists appologise?
ok-to all the younger feminists-im sorry.
im sorry that we are still ruled by patrarcy-
[but the good news is-theyre getting a bit worried]
im sorry that men are still raping women[and sometimes other men]

im sorry that men are still raping children

im sorry that men still sometimes see woman as theyre property

im sorry for our court system-
im sorry for our schools

im sorry that men are still beating women up

im sorry that young men are stabbing and shooting each other

im sorry that women with mental health probs are still seen as bad in society-just drugged up and not helped

im sorry that women are sent to prison for shoplifting to get food for theyre children

im sorry that children with sn [and theyre parents]are fucked off

im sorry that transpeople are not better off than they was years ago either-[and is given a story]

im sorry you are so small minded that you have to troll around the internet-then come here and try and look intelligent.

im sorry -im sorry-im so fuckin sorry.

youre looking the wrong way op.

i often write things and then ask to have it deleted-
i wont with this.
youve come to the wrong place and i make no appologies for what i feel.

yo sister-thankyou.[high five]
ha-these fuckers wont get us down and make us have to explain ourseves-never.
its them that have to explain.and say sorry.
if it takes forever-we wont shut up.

[high five] right back to you :)

I have got tears in my eyes reading your posts: "these fuckers wont get us down and make us have to explain ourseves-never."

OP - this thread is just research into your specialist subject of mobbing, isn't it? Has nothing to do with SRA or feminism whatsoever.

How has it been for you?

Maybe you could have chosen a better subject than the abuse of children though.

(Apols if someone has already said this and I've made an arse of myself, I didn't have a chance to read the middle chunk of posts.)

agree, cakeandroses.

see:

orsinian Sun 26-Sep-10 16:07:50
"...I'm an academic. My field of study is workplace bullying. I am a particular authority on the subject of 'mobbing'. Go look it up..."

go look it up. worrabitch

Completely agree CakeAndRoses. But I really respect the posters on here who have refused to get in to either giving credence to the suggestion that we apologise, or to picking on the OP.

The most horrible bit to me was when the OP made it clear that she wasn't interested in hearing from people, unless they already had the exact same knowledge base as she did. Made me feel pretty thick. :(

the more i think about this, tbh, the more cross it makes me. 'what's the most provocative thing i can accuse a woman of? hmmmm taking people's kids away from them for no reason, that might work... particularly if i spice up the story with a bit of ritual abuse of children'. disgusting.

heheh x-post, thicko.

yes, what was that about? what website did she think she was posting on, do you think?

haha - I actually meant that all the posters had been great, not that I only liked the ones who had been good girls! It might have sounded that way.

academicshitstirring.com?

well-the more i thought about it yesterday
the more annoyed and indignant i become
i even managed to burn myself with the iron
when i was thinking about it.

Aw sparky :(

I would love it if that four line post was in a Hallmark card, so many cases where that would apply!

at Hallmark card

sparky perhaps you could offer it to Hallmark, as elephants says, there would be lots of use for that card!

lololol re Hallmark card. Brilliant
Underneath you write, 'so piss off and never contact me again, love from all of us xxx'

Is it a hateku?

:o:o:o CCF!

Am picturing it being passed round the office for everyone to sign, with a few "stay in touch!" type messages alongside the more traditional "good riddance troublemaker". Maybe the odd "have a lovely day!" from those who haven't bothered to read the card.