Feminism chat thread

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

Hello

Been saying for ages that it'd be nice to have an area for just saying hi, letting off some steam and sharing the little things that don't warrant a whole thread.

So, I'll start...

My brother made me :o:o:o last night when we were talking about some crap sexist song. And he said (in all honesty) - well this is just one of the millions of ways the patriarchy keeps itself going.

Also got the updated email from the Feminism in London conference this morning - can't wait.

Anyone else?

How old are your girls, SQ?

Can't you buy labyrinth anymore, SAF!? But it's a cult classic! DD2 got NES for her birthday and just loves it. MIght get the Alice one and watch it first, but they're not easily scared, my girls. DD2's favourite animal for a good few years was 'great white sharks that ate people'

How do you mean 'war thing', aviatrix? Do you mean films that glorify war? Or him knowing about war?

I haven't read the Dirty Bertie books, but DD1 (7.5) loves them and reads them in one go

Labyrinth on Dvd

"My will is as strong as yours, and my kingdom as great. You have no power over me."

I love Labyrinth, and recently showed it to two of the kids I look after. The 7 year old got quite scared at certain parts (but was fine), the 4 year old seemed chilled out though :)

One of them is a Princess type so I thought the anti-Cinderella scene would be a good one for her. :o

there is a very interesting post about Labyrinth at Hoyden About Town. She's come up with various feminist interpretations of different bits of the film as well as the overall arc. I actually read it after not seeing the film for years and years, and it really made me think, especially the analysis of the final scene, and Jareth's exemplification of an abusive partner:

"Just fear me, love me, do as I say, and I will be your slave." etc.

Having said that, I also had a serious goblin-king crush from the age of about 7. Objectively he is quite horrible looking, but he's somehow a sexy ugly.

meggie moon is great, I change the words a bit though- I don't read out the part where they order her to build a ship. SHe just decides to build it herself. Or the bit where they don't want her to play because she's a girl: why should I put the idea in DD's head that boys wouldn't want to play with her...

I loved labrynth too, and I've realised it was possibly the only feministy film I came accross as a child, which was why. The goblin-king was strangely alluring, I love a man in make-up

going back to what we were saying about collaboration I've found some cracking quotes about and by Simone de Beauvoir.
I'm married, and I fully accept that this is a collaboration of a sort.. but when I look at feminism, I don't judge what is right according to how I live. I'm able to look at my life and and see that, yes, this or that aspect is collaboration.. but other aspects are not. I'm doing my best. Anyway..

"In Doris Lesing's story The room- the room of one's own- is death, death of female reality, death as an alternative to compromise. The author acknowledges that her writing is the kin of death and silence, that her "room" is a place menaced by compromise. And better death than the furtherance of "masculine values"..

..It is a requirement of art that artists be unified with his or her material...

... If a woman feels suffocated and grounded and bewildered by her womanhood, she feels these things alone [before the internet ] as an individual: there is currently no public unity among women because since the peak of feminism, the task of woman has been to assimilate herself with man> She is, therefore, occluded, scattered, disguised.

What today's woman has gained in personal freedom she has lost in political caste. Hers is still the second sex but she has earned the right to dissasociate　from it

[Today's woman] tries to conceal her dependence from herself, which is a way of consenting to it.

..Some of the most passionate writing in The Second Sex concerns the ways in which women seek to protect their privileges and property under patriarchy by condemning or ridiculing the honesty of other women*

although even though women can now share their bewilderment with other women, because we have the internet, its still essentially passed off as an individual experience

I'm reading Elephant's link now and OMG flashback . My mother identified with the Goblin-king and I remember her telling me that Sara was a spoilt child and that's why she wouldn't co-operate with the adults around her: meaning me
what a collaborator

actually not sure exactly what she was on about and how it related the film.. ho hum..
She definitely despised Sara, though

Aviatrix - I think the 'teaching children about war' thing is clearly contraversial. Personally, I think children are good at self-regulating information about things that are hard for them to learn about emotionally, and we're a pretty 'unschooling' family, so don't tend to do any censoring, just let the children talk things out if they're too 'big' for them to deal with alone.

As long as you're there to tell them 'the other side', as it were, or to put a stop on discussions when you can see they've had enough (mine usually tell me very clearly by either making the conversation very silly, or by changing the subject abruptly.

The thing about learning about big things in schools, is the teacher can't do anything except forge ahead because she can't stop every time a child feels out of their depth - she can't possibly see that some might be getting to that point in the way an HE parents would be able to.

All those films you mentioned are Japanese (Laputa, Kiki, Totoro, spirited away). This is a country of paradoxes- so many female friendly films and cartoons and then some extraordinarily shocking stuff as well

flamingo mine are 3.5 and 1.5. I don't know if they're ready for DB's trousers yet! I had a massive crush on DB after seeing that film - I was about 12 - and I wonder how much the trousers had to do with it

sakura I used to change some of teh words to meggie moon but then I stopped. The bit about the boys not wanting to play with her - her reaction is to laugh. DD is going to meet reactions like that from males in her life, and laughter is an excellent response. Also I kept forgetting to change them the same way and she noticed

Also totally agree with the individual thing - if a woman has experienced something sexist or misogynist then the reaction from everywhere is that society is fine and this is a one off. You're totally right. Look at the conversations where women have encountered discrimination at work - people are always quick to point out that the law is there and people can sue (!) and that most employers are now scrupulously fair - which is not a "fact" by a long chalk.

haha! Sardine, DD is always catching me out when I read it differently. Yes, having Meggie laugh is a good idea, I know DD is most likely going to face that scenario anyway... Sticking with her deciding to build the ship herself though

BTW, rosie's hat-do you mean Alfie and Annie Rose?