Okay so after bleating on about this I actually watched porn.....

[PosieParker]

I had the sound off as the noises made it seem a lot worse, but the woman looked bored, tired and distant. I almost could bear to watch the men, all aggressive expressions and helping one of the women have one position sex for a lot longer than I would. I found it really non sexy or sexual and completely backed up my opinion that it is pretty vile. Now I only watched about twenty minutes on and off, I had to keep flicking over....but in this time one woman was enduring intercourse and seemed to have to put all of the work in, bouncing up and down.

I cannot fathom how any watches it and enjoys it.

(this was following a conversation with a male friend who says I've never seen on and so blah blah, I agreed to watch one and really wish I hadn't, I am even more solid in my opinion.)

The 'you've never seen it, you don't know' argument turned up on the hooters thread and was quickly dismissed. Will your friend accept your aguments more readily now you can say you've seen some? Somehow I doubt it.
Maybe you should suggest he reads a feminist book as you were prepared to watch a porn film then you could both come back to the discussion.

The 'you've never tried it so how can you say you don't like it' only works up to a point. For instance, he's never tried castrating himself with a corned beef tin lid, so how can he say he won't like that
Porn does nowt for me either.

That was part of the deal! (you're not him are you?) He said that the women in the industry loved sex and looked like they enjoyed it, I said I didn't believe that they could....and that around the corner form someone enjoying it and making a decent living ws someone coerced, feeding a drug habit and around from them is someone forced, then children etc.

Can you suggest a decent book that deals with the feminist and porn? (He had said he would come to the conference if I found evidence that women hated it, but I can't see it happening!!)

Tell him to find evidence that the women actually love it, apart from the fake 'oohs' and 'aaahs' (note When Harry Met Sally) and the 'interviews' in his top-shelf magazines.

It was one experience I feel I could have done without.

I'm hoping to argue about Spa breaks next!!!

They have to look like they're enjoying it, don't they? Your friend sounds like he's not actually engaging in your arguments.
Can't think of a good book of the top of my head but I remember the documentary Hardcore (?I think that's what it's called). It's been mentioned on other threads. It's harrowing. Show it to him and then drag him to the conference. (I'm not him, btw, I'm a she )

I keep running over her expression in my head, I feel so gutted for her.

How about Pornland which is I think what was decided for the October book club discussion.

OOOO proving a point and being able to join a book club!!!

Jenna Jameson on Oprah.....am googling now!!

You could also check out (careful, links not worksafe though not blazingly in your face offensive)Anna Span or Petra Joy both of whom talk about wanting to make porn that appeals to women and, you know, starting from the viewpoint that there isn't anything wrong with wanting to watch sexually arousing material as long as it's made by consenting adults.

There was a whole series on porn on channel 4 in about 2005. There was one show which was about an outbreak of HIV in the LA porn community and it was, without a doubt, one of the most depressing things I've ever watched. They interviewed one woman who had been infected while filming the first ever film she'd done. She had grown up in foster homes in canada, decided to go to LA and become a pornstar, earn a lot of money and then go home. In the first film she did, she had to be "double penetrated" and one of the men involved had gotten infected somehow and passed it on to her.

Maybe see if you can get hold of it online and show it to him - shows how degrading the porn industry can be, even for the more "consenting" side of the industry.

friend of mine said he liked homemade porn for that reason - they actually like each other and enjoy the sex and it shows...

i wouldn't know myself, happy to remain ignorant.

Okay so I just watched the Jenna interview, in bits and thought really nice woman. She said some nights she hangs her head and asks herself if she made the right decision because she's so capable. At first I thought 'there, now there's a bit to post back' and then I thought I have the same thoughts. I never leave a GP's opffice without thinking I wish I knew when I was younger how much I had desire to be doctor.

Will have to watch when dcs go to bed, thanks.

I hope this doesn't sound horribly naive and I am genuinely asking, what's the problem with porn?

I suppose I'm in an unusual position in that I really like porn whereas my husband doesn't. He never watches it whereas I do from time to time. I don't like the slick hollywoodesque stuff as it's too full of fake boobs and oily skin but I do like "amateur" stuff which is usually staged but in a more realistic manner.

What exactly is the problem with porn? If someone chooses to be a porn actor is it a requirement that they feel ashamed of it? Is that because being sexual is wrong for women? I know a lot of people cite the fact that women do it to feed a drug habit, but look at George Michael in jail for doing drugs, that doesn't mean the music industry is degrading, it just means that some high profile people have a drug problem. The mainstream film industry can be just as tough and unfair as the porn industry in the sense that it is filled with insecurity and rejection. Being a doctor can be horrible, as can being a teacher, but this doesn't mean the profession is inherently wrong, it just means some of the practices within it aren't people-friendly. A lot of people put up with rubbish working conditions because they need a job and money. I'm sure if I wrote an expose about one job in particular that I had (in a caring, well respected role) it would horrify you what I had to put up with.

So is porn special for some reason?

It is a little bit like saying "I need to try cocaine so I know what I am refusing".