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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Misogynist Fathers

33 replies

slouchingtowardswaitrose · 17/08/2010 20:19

Can we talk about them?

I have one.

I don't even know how much I am prepared to share, but want to talk about how you deal with it when your parent perpetuates the kind of harm you are trying so hard to campaign against. It sucks.

OP posts:
MarineIguana · 17/08/2010 20:24

I don't see mine (misogynist and many other flaws) but I think I would say to the DC in front of him "Actually that is not true DC, grandpa is a bit confused" and suchlike. And also matter-of-factly pull him up on it whenever he does it?

TheCrackFox · 17/08/2010 20:26

I can go one further - I have a misogynist mother. Shock

My dad is not sexist. TBH I have no idea how they got together. Confused

slouchingtowardswaitrose · 17/08/2010 20:41

Oh my mother is a woman-hater too.

She hates herself, masked by outrageous narcissism.

She hates other women, because she is competitive with them (especially me).

Double whammy.

OP posts:
slouchingtowardswaitrose · 17/08/2010 20:42

Marine, I am leaning toward not seeing mine. I have low contact as it it.

It's not really sexist comments - it's his whole way of life. Job that blatantly objectifies women, serial philanderer, etc.

OP posts:
MarineIguana · 17/08/2010 20:50

But STW (love your name btw) - you're his child and you can see through him, and know that misogyny is dodgy - your DC will do the same.

Or are you talking about campaigning against it in general rather than how you bring up DC?

LadyBlaBlah · 17/08/2010 20:57

These individuals you talk of do not exist in a vacuum and do not get their opinions from the wind

A bit of humility might be in order. They are your parents

dittany · 17/08/2010 21:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MarineIguana · 17/08/2010 21:04

Don't agree. Being my parent doesn't make my dad deserve any respect or humility from me whatsoever. He would have had to earn those by being a loving, caring and respectful parent, and he wasn't.

Does everyone owe their parents something just for being their parents? Where do you draw the line? There are some terrible parents out there.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 17/08/2010 21:06

My DM kept us away from her father because he was a violent misogynist. TBH I never ever wish I could have met him or known him, he was an arse who did untold damage. I'm not sure why humility is in order.

MadAboutQuavers · 17/08/2010 21:07

Personally, I would ignore LadyBlahbla

There comes a time in your life when you have to cut out the people who make you very unhappy. If he is making you unhappy, and you are subject to his mysogyny, tell him you don't want to know and explain why. Just don't expect him to understand, although it would be a bonus if he saw your POV.

Respect is a two way thing.

LadyBlaBlah · 17/08/2010 22:33

I can't imagine anyone would not speak to their parents ever again just because they are sexist. You would never speak to a man again if that were the case.

There surely must be more to it.

e.g. violence

The point about the vacuum is that everyone is subjected to social pressures and conforms to social norms, even misogynistic men. Is this their fault?

quaere · 17/08/2010 22:35

Social pressures bullshit. If you're an intelligent human being, you can come up with your own opinions.

quaere · 17/08/2010 22:36

Oh crikey, I forgot we have to let men beat the crap out of us before we can object

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 17/08/2010 22:38

If one of your parents is not bringing anything positive into your life, and you think they are damaging & upsetting you and your kids, then you don't have to keep in touch with them. Whether it's their fault or not, the end result is what matters day to day.

LadyBlaBlah · 17/08/2010 22:39

You are totally misrepresenting and misunderstanding what I say, but each to their own

quaere · 17/08/2010 22:41

You said you can't write someone off just because of their opinions, 'there has to be more to it'. Then you cited violence as a reason.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 17/08/2010 22:42

Also I don't believe that all men are sexist.

LadyBlaBlah · 17/08/2010 22:45

yes, and ....?

I don't understand what you are saying with your last post quaere

LadyBlaBlah · 17/08/2010 22:47

Well I do happen to believe that most men (I can't say all because there is always the black swan) could be classed as sexist. As could most women.

But that is not to say that it is all their fault. They live in a particular culture and are conforming to the social norms.

LadyBlaBlah · 17/08/2010 22:53

There is an interesting way to test this for yourselves BTW

Attitude surveys apparently show that people are not racist, sexist or anything non pc-ist etc etc. however if you take the implicit attitude tests you may very well surprise yourself.

here

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 17/08/2010 22:57

Yeah I've done that before thanks LBB. But I think it is hardly surprising if many people subconsciously associate good things with the skin colour of their own self/family/community.

anyway I don't want to draw away from slouching's OP. I am lucky in that my parents are fundamentally good sorts, but some of the things they come out with on occasion still make me wince.

How much does your father's misogyny come out in day to day interaction?

quaere · 17/08/2010 22:58

You said it's unreasonable to object about someone's opinions, even if they are damaging, there has to be another reason like violence before you can do anything about it, like 'leave'. Violence is pretty extreme. There are lots of levels of 'unreasonable' before you get to violence. Misogyny and violence against women are often connected. Sexism and misogyny are different, I think. Sexism is more prejudice (girls like pink, boys like blue kind of thing). Misogyny literally means hatred of women. Would you expect an Asian person to put up with the opinions of a racist?

slouchingtowardswaitrose · 17/08/2010 23:06

Marine, my DC rarely see my dad. I'd like them to see more of him, because I think he has some useful, interesting, good things to pass on to them. And because they love him. And because I love him. We do not live very close.

I'm not worried about him passing on sexist ideas - I am happy to challenge these at the time, or later, just as I challenge lots of ideas my children hear, like that Jesus is coming for us soon or boys don't cry.

It's...the fact that his behaviour, and attitude to women, my mother, my many stepmothers, his constant pursuit of new women, etc, affected my development, my sense of worth, my identity, my sexuality, my choices, etc, to such an extent that I am only now, with grey hair and 2 children, coming to terms with it all and recognizing JUST how fucked up it all was.

And I always knew it was quite fucked up.

I used to please him. I was his interesting daughter who was doing this or that interesting thing in this or that interesting place. It was crucial that I 'not be like other girls.' In a way, I was used as a female son. If that makes any kind of sense. He wanted me to be a 'chick [insert typically male profession].' Now I'm a bore, a disappointment. The other day he called me 'suburban housewife' and laughed. Actually I'm an urban housewife, in fact I prefer homemaker, in fact I also home educate, run my own business and non-profit voluntary org, but hey. And he fucking hates suburban housewives. He has mocked and scathed suburban housewives my whole life (as has my mum). Of course he mocks and scathes all kinds of women so I probably can't win unless I'm being the chick whatever, son he never had.

I don't want to win.

I do, however, want some distance.

Yet I also want closeness, because I am his daughter and I love him.

Such is the nature of abuse, eh?

OP posts:
slouchingtowardswaitrose · 17/08/2010 23:07

Wow major cross post. Must go back and read thread, apologies for not responding to pps.

OP posts:
LadyBlaBlah · 17/08/2010 23:14

"How much does your father's misogyny come out in day to day interaction?"

He died last year

But he was misogynistic to a certain extent, as I think most men are, but nothing that we could not have a stand up rowhealthy debate about.

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