Coping with Trolls and Derailers

[ElephantsAndMiasmas]

There have been some very persistent posters on here recently - some of them funny (unintentionally), and some of them not - dragging threads off track so we have to go back and explain something over and over again. I'm all for a lively debate, but there always comes a point when you realise that they are not listening at all, are on a blatant wind-up mission, or are just insulting posters with no intention of debating the original issues.

If we don't want this to happen, and bearing in mind that some people spot the pattern quicker than others, I was going to suggest that we have something like a warning word/phrase that could alert other posters to the fact that they are wasting their time. What do you think? Is this a stupid idea?

Saying "ah, a troll" just adds fuel to the fire you see. But if you were to say "I blame Princess Michael of Kent" or something, and then everyone disappears...well it might work?

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that other religions and even secular society wasn't sexist. That is just my interpretation of where it stems from and unfortunately, people are easily easily led.

I agree, I spent a lot of time on American sites prior to finding Mumsnet (for some reason, I've not been able to find an Australian forum with the traffic and intellect to satisfy me - i do follow some Australian blogs, but they're tiny), and fuck, what a relief to find this place. I have never, ever, been able to have this sort of robust debate anywhere else.

That said, it was an American blog that introduced me to the OW. I didn't invent it, or anything.

I agree with that Butterfly.

YOu're always going to get knobs looking for excuses to behave misogynistically (sp) and the Bible and Koran can attract those types, but it doesn't mean your average Muslim/Christian is fundamentalist.

The problem is that it's bad promotion for Christianity when these people pop up promoting themselves as crucaders/jihadists.

Like the window theory Tortoise.
So when YDWTK says "why are you calling prostitutes knobs?" I shouldn't engage with that window because then the argument automatically becomes about whether I called prostitutes knobs or not.
Instead, I should ignore, or say something just as daft back, or keep track of the original argument and just not engage with said new window....
And that should infuriate them no end

Yeah think so Sakura.

I love the window thing, I have been trying to explain this (without knowing anything about window theory) to people recently. But you have to use lots of phrases like "expanding the parameters of what can be talked about" etc. The window thing is much more visual and easy to use.

Like on that thread where we all ended up saying thanks to dittany. That was because when people are saying things like "well if he hit you but you shouted at him first, it's not abuse", and a few timid people come in saying "actually I think abuse is abuse and he is a controlling idiot who thinks he's too good to hoover", it's so WONDERFUL when dittany swoops in with something like: "He's a misogynist who hates women and thinks they are fit for nothing but cleaning up after him. There is nothing you can do to change this, he thinks he owns you and the existence of his mighty phallus means that you are a second class citizen. get out of there quick and read some Dworkin." She shifts the window right over to where the idea that it's your fault when your H hits you is thrown right out of the realms of possiblity.

Also going back to the general question of coping with trolls, I think before you respond to them you have to ask youself "is there anything this person could say that I could possibly be interested in, at this point?". If they are being obviously provocative and off the wall then do you really want to know/care about the answer to the question you're asking?

(Sorry Sakura, this is kind of a response to you on the other thread, but I didn't want to post there - and lord knows I've done the same enough times)

now WHY didn't i see this thread last night?

I never engage with DP. Never, Just nothing she says interests me.

I did once say that she had the right to her views, but to be fair, I have no clue what her views are because I've hardly ever read her post. Just no interest.

So I'm not sure why I engage with other people. I think it's because on a deep level I know that angry people feel threatened by feminists.

DP is never angry, just chirpy

If they seem to just be coming on in an angry storm of posts, possibly insulting people and their views are a bit bizarre and there is no reasoning with them then it's just best to just ignore because that is not a discussion that's just someone shouting at you.

i think the thing is that we DO have to give noobs a chance, for example woodston raised a very interesting point last night prior to her conversion to evangelical christianity, and it would have been excellent if she had engaged with the responses to it. sometimes it's hard to pick out a troll from a not-v-bright or just-unfamiliar-with-MN noob, etc.

although if you're looking for a bat signal, i think well done kate is potentially a good one as it doesn't sound too many alarums.

I think it all boils down to how you're feeling on the day too. That other thread was a hoot. Aich, you and Elephants were hil-ar-ious.

it was, for a while, when the fosh were engaging. but that youknow guy is just mentally ill, which was a bit of a downer.

Yeah, but I can't help laughing at the Totally.Gobsmacked.Offence. it takes at everything (especially anything from me or dittany). And all that crap about how we are insulting someone's old mother.

I know it's not funny really but the sheer desperation and obscurity tickled me somewhat.

8 posts so far, 8, in response to my comment to Sakura. 8. I just want everyone to leave it alone and see what happens.

anyway, we're no further forward really... i do think we have to give people a fair shake, and not expect everyone to agree. (it took me about two years to learn to ignore the outpourings of daftpunk. )

re the hide poster thing... does anyone think they'd actually hit the button? i bet i wouldn't, you know... i think i'd still want to know what was being said rather than lose sense of the thread.

i wonder if there would be a way of greying a poster or something, without getting rid of them? so your brian would register their posts as not relevant to the thread but you could still refer to their posts if it became an issue?

Yes, I've been playing "how many posts can it get to" as well.

This is a really good thread, guys, I am feeling the love no end here. And i agree about dittany (and SGB is brilliant at this, too) swooping in all "oh FFS the man's a vile misogynist".

8 posts.
I think that's it Elephants. It's just tickled my funnybone.
I've got to go to bed or I'm just as mad as him.

i don't know what that is, darling girl... [luddite]

i would like, however, to name my greyscale idea 'The Moron Setting'.