Had a bit of a bad time today - how do you all manage when people come out with odd stuff?

[ISNT]

I wonder if I have been sitting here with you all too much, and it has skewed my thinking, and thinking that my views are maybe more mainstream than they are.

And that stepping back out into the real world, suddenly ideas which I would have thought were quite obviously normal and sensible, are apparently off the wall and bananas.

basically I had a bit of a run in today about something, and what I am thrown by is that people who I would very much have expected to agree with me, thought the opposite.

It has really confused me and I don't know where to put it. I don't want to say exactly what is was as walls have ears but it was something like, maybe, shouldn't they move the soft porn mags off the bottom shelves, and the resounding answer from a group of women with children, being no.

I am all and upset

What do you all do when this sort of thing happens? Has my time on here made me incompatible with the outside world?

Well you're tremendous proles so I'll put that as the other one on the list.

(Do you think Dittany was joking? I am feeling a bit dim )

The beauty myth or living dolls?

phew. I was looking at it a bit but equally open to new ideas

Righto

the beauty myth OR living dolls (which?)
proles' elephant book
sexual politics

and maybe have another go at the female eunuch when I've done that lot - I read it in my early 20s and honesty most of it went over my head

Have gone for the beauty myth

jenny60 thanks for your post too, it is frustrating isn't it. I am going to be calm from now on, and argue with succinct irrefutible clarity

Samyunni Sakura what do you mean by this?

"angry about some British thing, (like plastic surgery rates or violence against women)"

Violence against women is a British thing? that's like saying murder is a British thing it happens everywhere it's not a specific countries thing and also Japan was heavily scrutinised about treatment of women after exposure of rape clubs in Universities. www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTxZXKsJdGU "

I'm really getting tired- I mean really dead tired- of people battling against my most innocuous of comments, and battling against my points because....because they make people uncomfortable?

Did I say there was no rape in Japan?
Did I say violence was 'British' thing?

No.
I was making a cross-cultural comparison to encourage ISNT, by explaining that there are ways out for feminists. THere is less fear of rape in Japan, which may or may not be accurately reflected in actual rape statistics, but I think the media is less pernicious in that I think women feel freer to walk about in public spaces.
The Japanese are less violent, and the reasons could be the way alcohol is abused in the UK. The abuse of alcohol, binge drinking, is a British cultural phenomenon.
THe Shinto religion, and culture in general, believes it to be a sacrilege to alter your body, which is why I think tattoos and plastic surgery are less the 'done thing', despite capitalism.

There are lots and lots of Bad THings in Japan too. Lots of them, one of which I mentioned. BUt you seem more interested in picking apart my posts than anything I've actually got to say.

Blimey Len that's impressive.

The thing about not starting out on the defensive (which is a natural position to adopt with this stuff I think) is that it gives people nothing to come back at you with.

How can we not be on the defensive? Don't want to seem too dramatic, but there's a war against women going on all around us. I could get into argumens about sexism hundreds of times a day. The fact is that I don't because, whether I know it or not, I do choose my battles. I won't make a fuss every time I go into the local co-op and have to deal with those magazines, but I will make a point when I feel ready for a debate or when I am well armed. At the moment, I am trying to set up proper guidelines for selection and interview panels at work and I am trying to get gender included as a legitimate criterion when appointing. My industry is so overwhlemingly male that we just have to do something about this. I've been very depressed about this lately, to the point of tears after one shocking interview, and coming to these boards has helped me feel that I'm not alone.
Sisterhood IS powerful.

I've never visited Japan but I agree with Sakura's post about the cutural differences she mentions and how they reflect in society to create a more peaceful environment. Japan is known to be one of the safest places to live whereas Scotland for instance comes highest as a place where you are likely to experience knife crime. It makes perfect sense that binge drinking is playing a huge part in this.

I started having the women in parliament conversation with MIL the other week and gave up. She wouldn't budge that there weren't enough women up to the job and I was kind of speechless in response!

Have you seen this?

I know! I feel vindicated Freaky timing or what! I saw it in the Independent at my mums earlier and was just trying to find it online so I could stick it on the other thread...

Thanks for posting it - it is good news, isn't it

I hadn't seen this. Thanks for posting. This has made my day . Now, to get rid of the mags in the supermarket...

ISNT, i share your pain. am having a bit of a nightmare with my brother at the moment. its all a bit complicated to go into, but i competely sympathise with the awful feeling that people you like (or even love) basically think so poorly of women. and dont seem to grasp that you are a woman. so defacto, they think poorly of YOU.

im afraid im no longer talking to my brother (not just as a result of all this, but basically, its kind of the root of all our clashes) and im pretty devastated by it all.

but like DH says no matter how logical, non confrontational etc etc etc i am, he is never going to want to give up his privaledged position. and basically, it sucks big time.

sorry i think i might be off thread a little there!

Oh no frik that's awful

yep.

and to make things worse, one of my other family members was like 'hmmm, dont you think a relationship with your brother is worth just ignoring some of the things he says'

and i was like, what about telling my brother than having a relationship with ME is worth changing for?

family member goes 'oh well, you know, its so much easier if you just do it. he is a man after all'

it can be very fucking bloody depressing.

Oh FGS.

for you.

Feel free to get it off your chest if you want

thanks ISNT

ive actually been debating about writing about the whole sorry mess on here. but thought it might be better off in relationships or something.

but i wasnt brave enough. and to be honest, given some of the stuff that has been on here the last few weeks, i am too fragile about it all to be able to take some of the stuff i am sure would be written. if you see what i mean.

If you are nervous of the audience, put it in this topic? if you just want to air it to a sypathetic bunch, rather than opening it up to everyone IYSWIM.

Up to you though

lol! i was talking about this topic!

i think i will give it a skip. at least for today.

Just wanted to say thankyou to those who've posted book suggestions. (I might be quite so grateful when I get my credit card bill, so best to say it now!)

I don't really know how to challenge these attitudes. I am going through something myself, as my inlaws all want me to participate in a religious ceremony by doing something that I object to. They waved aside my objection that I am atheist and it would be hypocritical of me to participate, but when I also said that I considered the whole religion this particular action as deeply misogynist, they looked at me as though I had come from the moon.

Some things have become so normal and accepted that people just don't see the inherent misogyny.