Have I betrayed feminist principles?

[Granny23]

I met an old friend and colleague and having exhausted the long list of worthy causes she is still actively involved with, she asked me what I had been up to as she never sees me at anything. When I replied that most of my time is taken up with being a Granny to 3 she was quite taken aback. I got a lecture about allowing myself to become a glorified unpaid childminder when I should be persuing my own interests and staying actively involved in political and social issues. She said that she had brought up her daughters to be independent, self sufficient women, able to stand on their own two feet and she would neither expect them to look after her as she got older nor expect to look after their children (her grandchildren). Apparently this just perpetuates the expectation that women will be 'carers'.

I found myself stammering, trying to justify my 'Granny' status, why it was necessary to enable my DDs to continue with their careers, etc. etc. but I could not put a cogent argument forward as I have never really considered this from a feminist perspective. Now I cannot stop thinking about it but am lost in a tangle of conflicting thoughts. eg:

Grandad is (almost) as heavily involved as I am in looking after the DGC.
The DGC also go to nursery, we only have them for one day a week each -so 3 days in all + the odd extra day or evening.
We were asked if we wanted to do this but not pressured into it.
It was easy to say yes for DGC1 but then impossible to say no to DGC2 & 3.
I always wanted to travel and see more of the world when I retired but DH is not keen anyway and says we cannot go because we have 'responsibilities'.
If we did go away I would miss the DGC.
I do feel that I have been 'caring' for most of my life between children, wrinklies and at work - have never been in a position to make choices to suit only me.
I wonder if the above is just an excuse for my failure to 'be all I could be'.

Sorry, this is heavy stuff for a Saturday night but can anyone help me sort out my confused thoughts?

i do feel sorry for grandparents who are lumbered with so much childcare, tbh. my mother isn't into it, and good on her i say.

does it sit comfortably,are you happy to help.you sound v hands on.real life isnt a dichotomy of rigid principle,is about doing what individually works for you

and imo feminism is the acknowledgement of empowerment and choice.many women ,many ways to raise a family and be gran.different merits for different cases

Surely she is betraying feminist principles by trying to impose on you the choices that she thinks are right. Feminism, if it is about anything, should surely be about women having the right to make their own choices. If you are happy with the choices you have made, tell your to mind her own business!

That said, it couldn't hurt to review how much they were your choices and how much you are happy with them.

'she had brought up her daughters to be independent, self sufficient women, able to stand on their own two feet and she would neither expect them to look after her as she got older nor expect to look after their children'
This seems a rather depressing view of a family to me. I would very much want to help my mother as she gets older and needs help, and I very much appreciate her help with my children. Surely a feminist persepective would suggest that men should be sharing the pleasure and trouble of caring for children and the sick and the eldery as well, not that we should be contracting out all of this work to paid help? If she is suggesting that it is better to use childminders and nurseries for children then does she think it is in keeping with her feminist principles for low paid female staff to look after children because they are paid, but not for grandparents to look after grandchildren because they are unpaid? That seems like nonsense to me.

But three days childcare a week is quite a lot, are you reasonably happy with that much? What kind of travel would you like to do? Could you plan some trips that both you and your husband would be reasonably happy with, and book them a fair bit in advance so your children can sort out alternative childcare?

Thank you all for replying and all being so kind! I think the reason my 'friend's' comments rocked me so much was that she touched a raw nerve. I am torn between, loving my DDs and DGC and wanting to help as much as I can and feeling it sometimes a bit too much. I really do enjoy the DGC's company. They are all bright, loving and funny although they do occasionaly have their off days. However, I do not enjoy the endless cleaning and tidying because they do make a mess and the house needs to be hygenic for them. I hate housework - left to my own devices I would happily live in a midden! Really it is the responsibility that troubles me most. My reactions are not as quick as they used to be and although our house is as child proof as we can make it they still managed to get into and up to all sorts. If I am honest I have to admit to also finding it difficult to go without cigarettes for hours at a time while they are with us. (DH sometimes takes charge while I go out for a fag break walk in the garden!

Well, I think your daughter and son in law should pay you and not take you for granted, and I hope that you are not childminding all the time, imo, 3 days a week would be MORE than enough. You need to balance out your week so that you have time for yourself.

But so long as you are well capable of saying that you don't want to do something if you don't want to do it, then I think your friend sounds like one of those annoying people who tell you what you should be doing; ie, living exactly the way they do.

But if you wanted to watch tv and drink cups of tea on your day off, I wouldn't blame you! Your friend mightn't be happy with that either I suspect.

btw, My mum is a great help to me, but I wouldn't want her to be unable to go away because she felt she'd miss my children. That would make me feel terrible.

I think you should go away on a fabulous holiday and think about things you'd like to do when you get back. They don't have to be worthy causes.

I think you have an almost perfect set up there, with plenty of life and family around you. It just needs some little tweaking now before resentment builds up and takes the joy of it from you. This goes for your husband as well as your DD's, he sounds a bit stuck in a rut.

I would ignore your friends comments, she sounds a touch jealous - I don't think it's a betrayal of any sort of principles to give and receive help and support from the people you love.

surely it depends on what minding your GC means to YOU

My mum would pay me to spend more time with my DC, she absolutely loves every minute and can happily do full days with him, but my MIL, while she loves him, would find it tiring and trying to do more than the odd babysit. If I took MIL on as an unpaid child minder just because she is a granny and too polite to say no, wouldn't that be anti-feminist? but if my mum did it she would be doing the thing so loves best at this stage in her life so a good feminist choice?

Dittany - my DDs are also independent and well able to stand on their own two feet. Neither is married to their long term partners and both solely own their homes - a progression from their student days when we came up with the deposits to enable them to buy rather than rent a flat. Our sons-out-law are lovely blokes, share the child care, cook and clean and most importantly respect our daughters. Our DDs ARE living the feminist dream but being the bigger earners still have suffered from ISSUES such as loss of income during extended maternity leave and lack of affordable child care.

I would not dream of asking SOLs to clean my house, nor of being paid for child minding, but OTOH maybe they could pay for a (well paid, male or female) cleaner for me! Would this be a feminist approved solution?

Your friend sounds a bit opinionated and not much fun TBH granny. If I had a friend who told me what I ought to be doing like that I'd be pretty miffed - where's the tact?

Anyway, I think she is talking rubbish and everyone should do what is right for them and their families.

And I've just seen your last post and on a practical note I think that asking for them to pay for a cleaner would be a really good idea. I also think you need to keep the lines of communication open with your children about what/how the arrangements can be altered/changed if anyone wants to (you may have this already). My mum has the children while I work and I have said from teh start that if it gets too much and she wants to stop or cut back or anything then as long as she gives me a bit of notice then that's (obviously) absolutely fine.

I think it is good when families are close - independence doesn't mean not seeing or helping each other. It's not to do with moving to opposite ends of the country and only seeing each other for 2 weeks at christmas. Having close knit families who see each other and help each other makes for a pretty happy life IMO

It doesn't.

There is an argument about womens roles womens work and how society doesn't value them and how so many women are unpaid carers and have to make sacrifices that are not expected of men etc.

But the solution isn't the dissolution of the family. it's to get everybody to share the burdens, men and women, and for society to acknowledge this hard and important work.

Sounds to me your friend is confusing feminism with those dreadful 1970 communes . The ones where they say, 'I do my own thing....' to anyone who will listen.

I think the other woman is being rather sexist. Her daughters and the OP's daughters are not asking to be looked after; the daughters are independent. The people who are being looked after are the grandchildren, and the underlying assumption seems to be that those grandchildren are the sole responsibility of their mothers, because their mothers are women. The assumption is then that anyone who looks after another woman's child is doing that woman a massive favour.

The feminist response should surely be that the wider family, community and society should have a role in caring for the children, and that individual women should not have to bear the weight of child rearing alone.

I believe that the most supportive feminist act (beyond direct campaigning) I can carry out is to look after the children of other women without making those other women feel guilty, or that they are imposing, or that it is some sort of burden to me, or that they have to justify what they are doing while their children are with me. My DH often has our own children in the house and the children of other people and his willingness to do this is one of the things I most respect about him.

Lovely post MillyR. You have reminded me of the warm and yes, caring, side of feminism. We used to call it the sisterhood - women helping women helping women helping women (written in a circle).

sugarmousepink I meant to say as well that I'm sorry to hear about your mum