Eco-parenting and women's work?

[wastingaway]

Some interesting points came up on this thread, about whether eco-parenting and green living in general tended to create more work for women?

It was also suggested that in fact modern conveniences act to disguise the inequality in relationships.

As I sit contemplating the bucket of shitty nappies that I will be putting in the washing machine, I am wondering about this a lot.

What do you think?

Most of the people I know who live eco-type lives aren't really in employment. I don't mean they sit on their arses all day, but they're usually self-employed (especially working from home) or raising small/SN kids.

I'm not sure about cause and effect though.

Um.

I am no good at feminist discourse and usually shy away from these threads but will try to say something coherent as I'm very interested in this.

DP and I live in a small rural community with an environmental focus. IME, the 'eco' aspects of our chosen lifestyle make more work for both of us in some ways, and I think we share that fairly. Washable nappies - well, it'll probably be me that puts the machine on more often. But it'll doubtless be DP who remembers to keep an eye on the rainwater collection that the machine runs off, and changes the pipes from one butt to the next as they empty, and fixes the 12v pump when it plays up. That sort of thing.

We gain a lot by living here though so it can't be compared to more conventional set-ups - meals are cooked communally several times a week, cleaning of the shared facilities is done on a rota so all the adults here do their fair share, these things make it less work for all of us.

Like ElephantsAndMiasmas mentioned, DP doesn't go out to work full time though. He does seasonal work, and a few part-time jobs. So we have less income but more time, and I think that makes all the difference.

The logical end of sustainable living is what they used to call "self-sufficiency" isn't it? So the more eco you become, the more you become basically small-time farmers. I like the commune idea though. A lot of this work is surely better off shared.

Perhaps there's a distinction to be drawn between the kinds of places/communities where the QueenOfFlamingEverything lives - [waves] hi! - where much more of the domestic labour is shared due to the nature of the for-money work they do - and a middle class family where they decide to (eg) use cloth nappies and make their own baby food.

In the 'average' family it's the woman who takes maternity leave, and if either of the couple stay at home after that, it's probably the female parent. And I'll bet she's the one washing the buckets of shitty nappies (rather than chucking out disposables) and pureeing vegetables, rather than her husband picking up some of that work at weekends.

I'm not looking to start a 'oh it's not that much more work to use cloth' discussion (fwiw, we're going to use cloth!) - I'm just saying, I think in the run-of-the-mill setup, some of these greener alternative add to the types of domestic work (eg putting a wash on) that women already do the lion's share of.

well, i agree with swallowedafly. if you already shoulder most of the domestic chores in the house, childcare shopping then yes choosing to have a more 'eco' lifestyle will inevitable create a larger gap between you and you partner. unless a discussion is had and agreements made about a new division of labour so that the work is shared between the two of you.

if however you already share all these chores then it will just be a case of both of you adjusting to cover the increase in workload.

QOFE, that sounds wonderful. I used to be interested in communes and stuff when I was yonger. I'm a bit .

SaF, I think Greer mentions the sharing of washing machines in The Female Eunuch.

It does seem like a very distinct division of labour isn't very good if you try and lead an eco life.

I suppose if the WOHF is cycling to work/digging the allotment or in some other way contributing to the lifestyle/environment then it's more fair. Or obviously, doing their share when they're there.

I think that part of the reason why women pick up more of the workload is because they are conditioned to care more about people other than themselves and that includes in terms of their environmental impact. If men dont' really care, they won't do any of the work.

I've also noticed that we don't ever talk of our environmental impact in terms of our WOH only in relation to domestic work. For example, DH flies quite alot for work. His attempts to get his collegues to use the train or video conferencing fall on deaf ears. No one cares. However, when we took the train for our summer holiday, the same people were ooh, what a good idea, we could do that.

Yes.

I was thinking that if the husband drives to work and the number of hours he worked meant that the wife literally had to do all the nappy-washing etc. then the husband wasn't actually doing anything eco other than nodding when the wife talked about landfill iyswim.

Meant to add, so in terms of where people expect you to make changes, it's the domestic arena (and hence women) that are targeted.

I suppose the domestic arena is easier to change than for example the entire culture of your workplace. Easier for who though, is the question.

Where we live there is a commitment to social change as part of the membership criteria, and we try to spend a certain amount of time a week working towards that. Its loosely defined though - I fulfil my commitment with BF peer support and counsellor training. But others who live here are vey active in campaigning for change on all sorts of social and environmental issues. So its not just about domestic changes here by any means.

Oh 'Eco-living' has always been about more work for women. A lot of these Crispin Modern Parent blokes who go on about how wonderfully sustainable and natural their lives are, do fuck all of the actual work, they just write blogs about it - and maybe they bicyle everywhere but that's not exactly work.

Think it is very difficult to be eco when you have a couple who work FT.

So, use the tumble drier a lot (there are towels on my line which have been there for ages - I put them out in the moning and if it rains there is nothing I can do).

i drive a lot - i wouldn't consider walking to work as the 3 mile walk would take a significant amount of time. i already work long hours, i want to drive home and be with my dd, not walking for eco reasons.

I get a fuel card with my car, so get free fuel (albeit affect my tax), which means we think nothing of driving somewhere distant for the weekedn as effecticely the fuel is free.

I have to fly a lot for work. My company does not consider video conferencing a suitable alternative for face-to-face meetings.

The majority of teh burden of housework does not fall to me - Me, DP, DD and Dstepson share it pretty equally - however we use quick and easy methods to clean and tidy as we do not spend that much time together. I am not going to waste my precious free time cleaning. Hence use of detergents because quicker than eco methods etc.

@ SGB.

But not all men who are truly committed to eco-living are like that, in fact the most committed ones aren't likely to be the ones trumpeting about it. DP doesn't ride a bicycle anywhere, or write a blog, but he puts massive amounts of hard bloody work into our way of life, and it'd be far easier on him if we lived in a nice terraced house with gas central heating and a lawn.

lol at Crispin

If we turn it around though, eco choices are mostly jut what life was in ye olden days.
So, modern conveniences are just a sticking plaster for inequality?

Well Dh and I share everything that happens while he's at home 50:50 so doing things eco means more work for both of us...although I don't consider it much more work actually, and it also saves us money, which is very important to us.

I don't think it's a feminist issue, just part of the age old argument of how much home-making work is shared.

I don't know Mrs.W.
I'm seeing this as guilt layered upon guilt for me.
Central feminist concern of the middle class western woman.

Now I want to know where you live QoFE (ex-communard here).

I agree that men & women who are truly committed to eco living & social change are more likely also to be committed to sharing work equally. Certainly where I used to live it would have been hard to pick out much of a gender division of labour (tractor driving somewhat more done by men, thats about it). Ditto in climate change/anarchist groups that I have been involved with of recent years - as likely to be men as women running the kitchen/kids area/plumbing/etc. (very much unlike left wing groups when I was in my 20s)

I do think that the key point is the one that elephants made earlier about whether one or two people are in full time conventional employment outside the home. Where you're both self/casually employed, there's a lot more scope to be flexible about who does what of child raising & domestic work.

Our current position where most people are working for an outside employer away from the home in a fixed employer/worker relationship really sets people up for a conventional one worker one childcarer situation.

Sorry - all a bit muddled - will be back later . . .

A large part of green living is consuming less. That means buying less. As shopping is largely a woman's job, although for some reason people choose to refer to it as a 'hobby', consuming less means that women have to spend less time shopping, cleaning stuff that isn't needed, painting and refurnishing rooms that were fine already, and so on.

I think part of green living is realising that you don't spend longer using a green product to clean; you just clean for a short time and accept that there is no actual reason why your house needs to look like a washing up liquid advert.

But I am not going to deny that some green activities do take longer, and that work usually falls to women. For this reason I think green living has to be community based. So we have enough chickens to provide our whole street with eggs, and we get a wide range of things given to us or done for us in return. I don't think you can have green living without social change that reduces the isolation of the nuclear family, particularly primary carers.

That's true about less shopping Milly. Though, I'd like to charity shop, but can't bring myself to spend the necessary hours with a toddler in tow atm.

The community aspect does seem to be central.
I am feeling that my time might better be spent campaigning for some changes while being a little more convenient at home.