straight pornography is male gay in sensibility

[Heathcliffscathy]

This came to me in a wave of inspiration...straight porn is a hypermasculinised view of sex. Hypermasculinity has it's place in the pantheon of what it means to be a gay male (not all, not every, by any means).

straight porn is totally phallocentric: penetrative to the exclusion of all else and the builds up to an inevitable anal sex finale, or blowjob come shot/facial.

the vagina plays second (third?) fiddle to anus and mouth and size is all. breast stimulation gets barely a look in.

bear with this as I know it's treading a dodgy generalisation line, but it does strike me that if you were to argue that male gay sexuality (as a generalisation, i know that there is a vast continuum out there that we are all on male and female) is the zenith of hypermasculanised male sexuality, then mainstream straight porn is pretty gay?

Do you think it's possible that the homoerotic is so repressed in 'straight' man that it has to find it's outlet in porn, which leaves women utterly hard done by porn wise?

i know there is a strong argument to suggest that straight porn is just about degrading women and undoubtedly that's in there a lot of the time but could there be another basis to it?

I guess the counter argument would be, how can anyone know whether something they are watching is genuinely being enjoyed or not.

So how about if DH and I made a film and showed it to sophable. Note this is just an example no-one panic Would that be OK?

Sorry but ROFL

I consider pornographic stories to have wholly separate ethical implications to porn films. In the same way I would have different feelings about someone playing Cluedo and someone watching a snuff film, or someone reading a Child Called It and someone watching a youtube video of child abuse.

ISNT you know that there is NO WAY that women doing the whole anal, pounding penetrative end up in facial rubbish are NOT enjoying themselves one bit in the vast majority of cases...it's blatantly obvious.

and depressing in the extreme not to say disturbing.

I find it so interesting that in fact a film depicting real pleasure is so much more subversive, more difficult to watch for some men/people?

sorry about the double negative...they are NOT enjoying themselves clearly!

ISNT, I think if you made a porn film and showed it to Sophable you would be contributing to the porn culture that is becoming so prevalent, where sex becomes a performance rather than a mutual act of experiencing physical pleasure.

But I don't think it would be in the same ethical league as the sex industry.

If DH and I made a film, though, wouldn't it be subverting the porn culture as neither DH nor I look anything like porn stars and we would genuinely be enjoying ourselves.

I think that where I am with all this is that the mainstream porn industry = shockingy bad for many many reasons

But I wish there was a place for film of happy normal people having genuine happy sex.

But do you think people want to watch that?

consensual sex, I mean

Sorry gone off at a tangent there. I haven't been on a porn thread on here before so haven't really thought things through, went off a bit sideways.

dittany, sometimes yes. mostly maybe. always? i doubt it. there are some women who make a lot of money out of pornography and certainly at the most 'professional' rather than gonzo end of porn the women on film are paid far far more than then men.

rape is NON consensual sex. i think it is a gross generalisation to suggest that ALL women taking part in making porn are doing so without informed consent. although I agree that the terrible truth is that in many cases this is the case.

Soph - I just read your Op to Dp and he is sat wide mouthed. He is desperate to disgaree with you but he can't.

classic gigantasaur.

I think that the ethics of sex are informed by how well you know the person. How is sophable to know whether Isnt can make an informed, consensual choice unless she is very close to her?

I think people would want to watch that, yes, smallorange.

Dittany a lot of people are exhibitionists, are not private about these things. People have different boundaries, different things they enjoy. Some people get off on being watched, sexuality is a complicated and wildly varying thing.

Note to all DH and I are not going to film ourselves having sex

Are there two conversations here

Oh I meant to delete that last line.

I think that's right. there is complexity here.

isn't vamp literature a kind of hyperfeminine woman porn?

ISNT, I am interested in you wanting a film of happy people having happy sex.

This is not condemnation, but interest in your perspective. I am not interested in watching such a film, because I believe that the basis of entertaining sex is the personality of the people involved. As Jensen said, there are only so many ways you can put body parts together, but human emotion about sex is infinite.

So I can see the appeal of written fiction - you can create characters with personality and emotion (not always love) and the sex can be used to covey both sexual and non-sexual meaning.

I am not sure what the purpose is in watching two strangers having sex on film.

you see dittany i don't agree with you.

you're going to hate this, but just as I know that buying 5 pairs of pants in asda for 1.50 almost inevitably involves the abuse of at the very least the worlds resources and at worst adult or god forbid child labour, but can bring myself to ignore it, so I think that most male viewers of pornography deny the abuse to themselves.

so i'm back to my original argument: it's all about the anus in favour of the vagina, it's all about the blow job in favour of breast worship, it's penis worship, it's penetration fetishism and maybe it stems in some part from a repression of a natural homosexuality that exists in many many more men then can begin to acknowledge it.