Why can't some women see that their relationship is abusive?

[foreverastudent]

After having read yet another bad relationship thread on AIBU I have come to the conclusion that there is an institutionalised denial of emotional domestic abuse in this country.

So many women start threads complaining about one thing only for it to emerge that their relationship is deeply abusive.

Now, i'll hold my hands up and say that when I was in an abusive relationship I didn't see it. I saw myself as having an individual problem. I didn't idenitfy with the image I had of a 'victim'.

So, what can we do to change this mindset? Does it need a tv ad campaign like the rape ones? Or can nothing change until women can be assured of a more secure financial position post-break up?

We can teach our children, male and female, how to respect others, and also respect themselves. That is the basis of a good relationship.

I don't know if many people know the links between being brought up in an abusive childhood and going on to abuse/suffer abuse? Perhaps that would be a good basis for an ad campaign. Probably it's already been done, but could be seen as an example of victim blaming if support to leave/change the reln is not available.

Also, we could help each other instead of living in such an insular bubble that many of us do - community support and all that. Actually talking to people and being supportive. I think the stigma is perhaps less these days than when my mother was being battered, but it's still a huge factor I would think. My mother was always scared of having her children taken off her but I don't think that fear is so prevelant today.

But yes, it comes down to money. Single parents are pilloried today and politicians, the media and goddamn just about everybody uses hate speech about them.

And like you foreverastudent, I didn't see it either. It wasn't so much that I saw I had an individual problem - it was drummed into me that I had problems, when in fact it was my partner that had problems.

yep-also-
i think that fear of the unknown might play a part sometimes!
also-fear of ending up in bb or hostel[we have a big social housing problem]-
and even these days a one parent family is not seen as a bonifide family!
when it comes to parents with children with sn-sometimes theyre isolated anyway-so leaving a abusive realashionp could be even harder-and they might stay as the only support theyve got is theyre partner[even though it could be bad support]sometimes bad support is better than no support![they might feel]
i have yet to see my child come home from school with a reading book with a one parent family in it!!
its all very well having campaigns-but its got to be backed up with bonifide support!

I think the major reason is that for most people in any sort of abusive relationship, that is normal and familiar to them.

In other words, they are brought up in a family which operates abusively so when they meet someone in their adult life who is abusive, it feels normal.

And if they move in circles where abuse by men is considered normal (ie most circles) then their early personal experience is backed up by social acceptance of abuse.

We talk about emotional abuse all the time on MN, but in RL people look blank if you use the term.

Do you think criminalising emotional abuse would help?

Not sure I agree that most people in any sort of abusive relationship come from an abusive background - I didn't didnt. Neither did any of my successful, confident girlfriends who found themselves in the exact same situation...

For me, it has a lot to do with the normalisation of gender roles, make us too willing to feel bad about being successful, too willing too give up our financial independence (or at least downgrade jobs), too willing to fight to stay in a 'couple', and make excuses for his behaivour because that is the 'ideal' scenario.

I am just realising that the last 3 significant relationships including the one with my husband and father of my children were abusive... it is a pretty shocking self realisation- and honestly a TV campaign would have done chuff all.... I would not have even thought that it was talking to me....

foreverastudant
[do you think that criminalising..........]
i dont know about that-but i think that people should be looking at what emotional abuse is-as even these days people dont know what it is sometimes!

Snowmama yes, sorry, I agree with that as well - entrenched gender roles and women being seen as the "guardians" of the family and relationships, the ones who are responsible for keeping a relationship going. Men feel very little responsibility for ensuring that their relationship is a good, healthy, happy one from what I can see, while women bend over backwards to make it work even when it's obvious to the rest of the world that it isn't working, it never worked and it ain't ever going to work.

I do come from an abusive background (in many ways) and I am not in an abusive relationship not am I an abuser. It's not automatic... Some of us saw (and experienced) abuse as children and determined that we would not tolerate this treatment or mete it out. I know this isn't the case for many people but please don't assume that everyone who suffers abuse as a child either goes on to perpetrate it or suffer from it again

I think this acceptance and apparent inability to see that one is being abused is because of the inherent attitude that women are lesser citizens; need a man; are, in fact, the property of a man. This acceptance and expectation is (I believe) one of reasons why so many women still die every year at the hands of their partners or ex partners.

As to what can be done about it perhaps showing our children by example that respect for both sexes is normal, natural behaviour might help. Unfortunately, however, until the basic attitude of male dominance ends I don't believe things will alter significantly. Which is terrible.

I meant nor am I an abuser...

Saying that lots of people in abusive relationships had abusive childhoods, is not the same as saying that people who had abusive childhoods will go on to have abusive adult relationships, BDSM. I think they are disproportionately more likely to experience abusive or dysfunctional relationships in adulthood, though, than people who grew up in happy functional homes.

I read a figure once which claimed that around 14% of people who grew up in abusive homes, go on to become abusers themselves. (Have never read any estimates about people who go on to become abuse victims.) I suspect that's just a wild stab in the dark though, because I simply don't know how anyone would estimate that.

But HerBeatitude - how useful it is to consider if the background of abusers and victims includes abuse(not to mention how it invalidates BellDamesSansMerci's life and lots of other people)..

Take take your 14% - where did it come from ? How does it compare with the percentage of abusers who come from non-abusive backgrounds ?

What I would be interested in, is why/how society actually condones abuse - why is it difficult to admit what it is going on and why are we concerned about what people think. I think BellDameSansMerci has put it better than I can - but until people/society stop seeing women as the property of men (which has lots of implications for both women and men in terms of how we view society, gender, roles, responsibilities etc).. then actually women will continue to die/be abused disproportionately by their partners and ex partners.

HB I think you're right. If you've been brought up in an abusive environment it will feel normal and familiar and, therefore, sort of "safe" (wrong word probably) to then be in a similar relationship. I have been in situations where I've felt very comfortable in a relationship that I've known wasn't ideal only to then realise why it feels comfortable and have then quickly moved on.

That figure of 14% is much lower than I would have though (not that I'd seen the figure before). It's a relief really. Having been told that the abused "often" become abusers I've always really worried that this is somehow a normal result and am very scared of ending up there. Clearly, if it's only 14%, then 86% of the abused do not become abusers which feels as if a huge weight has been lifted for me. I can't believe I didn't just check for myself! So, thank you, HB, thank you so much.

snowmama, don't question that 14%

LOL BDSM glad I put your mind at rest! It really annoys me actually, this assumption that people have that if you have grown up in an abusive family you are somehow destined to be abusive yourself, as if it's inevitable and unavoidable. It's not, people have power over their own choices and they can break cycles of abuse and it's so insulting to the majority of people who don't go on to repeat abuse.

Agree Snowmama. I can't remember exactly where I read that figure, maybe someone like Susan Forward or Gertrude Himmelfarb or someone, but possibly not so don't quote me on that - I was quite surprised that anyone had dared to put a number on it tbh but it has stuck in my head ever since. Even if it's way out, it still low enough to be rather cheery. And no there was no figure quoted for abusers who had grown up in non-abusive families (I'm sure I'd remember it!)

But yes take your point that it's the wider societal condoning of abuse, that is so terrible.

Why do non-dysfunctional, decent people who know that the man up the road is an abuser, tolerate his behaviour in their midst? I suspect it's somethnig to do with a lack of understanding about the dynamics of an abusive relationship, but lots of them are shored up by the non-intervention of the rest of society.

Exactly.. and I do not have an answer for it.

My brother was once beaten very severely for iintervening on the street whilst a woman was being beaten up. Was beaten up by the men's friends - was asked by the police 'what he thought he was doing'.. this iis a decade ago - but still...

I think that part of it is that we are a country of quite 'private' people. We keep what is behind closed doors hidden away. Politicaly there is a reluctance for the state/society to interfere with the 'home'.

Things have changed as regards to child abuse. I don't know when attitudes to intimate relationship abuse will follow.

HB, you have reminded me of a F-Word post about the most recent Met campaign re DV with the slogan 'You make the call. We'll make it stop' urging people to call the police and stop ignoring it.
'By targeting ?bystanders? we aim to create a hostile environment for the perpetrators themselves, whilst also telling the public that we take domestic violence seriously and are committed to tackling the issue.

'In order to challenge some of the excuses that bystanders might give for failing intervene by calling 999 to report instances of domestic violence, a 30 second radio advertisement has been produced using emotive sound effects to create cut through during the cluttered summer market.

The online element of the campaign will consist of a short interactive film set in a ?neighbours? lounge which demonstrates that bystanders can stop domestic violence by dramatising the immediate effect of a 999 call, or by reminding them of the devastating consequences of not making the call if they choose not to take action.'
www.met.police.uk/campaigns/domestic_violence_2010/index.htm

Video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQzJURnCMMI&feature=player_embedded

Great campaign but a shame it only ran for a month. Has anybody in London seen posters or heard the radio advert?

It's tricky HB, Japan has just passed a law making it illegal for neighbours NOT to report signs of child abuse. the japanese are also very reserved so this law is needed here.
But it's such a fine line, I mean how many stressed out mothers are going to be reported on just because they were having a bad day, and what they actually need is financial and emotional support more than anything else.
But they could definitely bring in a smiliar law for wife batterers without there being any repercussions.

I don't mean smacking, of course
I mean if a mother shouts at her child as a one off, for example. How would a neighbour know whether to report it or not.

I don't think it's practical to make emotional abuse illegal. The legislation would have to be drafted pretty tightly to exclude normal arguments (and who has not said something horrible to someone in the heat of an argument). If you're defining it as sustained verbal abuse then you need CCTV in your house or it's going to be one person's word against another.

Personally I think this is about bringing up girls with better self esteem and a stronger sense of identity to resist pressure to behave in a way that men like. I remember girls at my school who stopped doing PE because "Boys dont like sporty girls" and pretending to not know answers in class in case the boys thought they were "boffs". I know that's not exactly a major thing but I do think it's the thin end of the wedge.

"pretending to not know answers in class in case the boys thought they were "boffs"

And with the culture of masculinity there's even more pressure on boys not to look like boffs. BUt they do that for other boys, not for girls, so it's slightly different. So yes, I think definitely concentrating on girls' identities is the best place to start.

"I don't know if many people know the links between being brought up in an abusive childhood and going on to abuse/suffer abuse? Perhaps that would be a good basis for an ad campaign. "

I think that would be disastrous for the self esteem of women who are coping with and recovering from an abusive childhood.