Why can't some women see that their relationship is abusive?

[foreverastudent]

After having read yet another bad relationship thread on AIBU I have come to the conclusion that there is an institutionalised denial of emotional domestic abuse in this country.

So many women start threads complaining about one thing only for it to emerge that their relationship is deeply abusive.

Now, i'll hold my hands up and say that when I was in an abusive relationship I didn't see it. I saw myself as having an individual problem. I didn't idenitfy with the image I had of a 'victim'.

So, what can we do to change this mindset? Does it need a tv ad campaign like the rape ones? Or can nothing change until women can be assured of a more secure financial position post-break up?

I mean an 'ad campaign' may not work because abused women would look at that and make the assumption that they were the abuser.
Lots of women in abusive relationships blame themselves for the abuse, think they're innately faulty, or the abuse is their fault somehow. Some even believe that they are the abuser in the relationship i.e 'I made him do it." SO if they suffered an abusive childhood and see a campaign telling them child abuse sufferers go on to be abusers they might come to all kinds of conclusions.

While I agree that we definitely need to ensure that girls are brought up with greater self esteem/less concern about what boys/men think of them etc I think it would be more useful to focus on why some boys are brought up with this inherent belief in their "right" to treat a woman badly.

I suspect much of this is learned at home. I can't see any way out of this unless there is a fundamental shift in attitudes at all levels. I hesitate to suggest that this could be addressed in schools but I can't see another way of reaching children who are learning, from their homelives, that abuse is normal.

BelleDame- I think the issue with teaching these things at school is that you're preaching to the converted- it's like the lectures on smoking and drinking that you get when you're 10, and to be fair to most schools, I think most children know that hitting, punching and bullying are not acceptable.

Unfortunately, history suggests that oppressed groups only get what they want when they decide to "rise up". There's no real incentive for men who abuse women to change- they're happy with the status quo. The change has to be demanded by women who must say "this is not right- this is not going to be my life" and stop accomodating these people. However, I admit that the fable about putting the bell on the cat comes to mind. No revolution lacks casualties.

I am with Belle on this one - it is not only working on girls self esteem, but also raising boys (and girls) to respect each other. To see violence and (sexual) aggression as an unacceptable way to behave. This can be done through both straight up campaigns - but also through participatory behaivoural change programmes - sports, theatre all sorts.

It is really about looking at how roles, gendrs are presented to children/young adults and addressing that well - making domestic violence fundementally unacceptable. Which would not be easy but worth trying.

I can't quite figure out how I ended up in an abusive marriage. I had a happy childhood, reasonably high self-esteem, feminist beliefs (still have 'em all!)

It seems like they counted against me for a while, because I assumed that my ex would be rational and open to reasonable discussions, because that's what I'd encountered all my life.

Of course, those factors also gave me the strength to get out sooner rather than later.

I honestly think that mumsnet and other internet sites are a really important defence against abuse. Where else can women be really honest about their lives under the cloak of anonymity, and get equally honest and blunt responses? Where else can they be gpointed towards helplines and other resources? It's the start of a quiet revolution!

Nickname I wonder sometimes if being a strong woman actually attracts a certain kind of man who wants to "break" that strength?

BaggedandTagged I totally agree. Legislation would never be workable. What's needed is a cultural change. The bar needs to be raised on what is acceptable in relationships for women and girls, and they need to feel empowered to walk away when those standards aren't met. At the moment you are basically expected to count your blessings if your partner doesn't beat you and if he buys you anything or shares any money. Jeff Green has a line about 'Oh, but he's nice some of the time and he bought me a KitKat last February', from some woman justifying staying with her boyfriend - it's like that.

The whole demonisation of single mothers is a key part of this, too, as if women really felt that it was more sensible and socially acceptable to be a single parent than to stay with an abusive partner, there would be a lot less of this kind of abuse going on.

I do wonder whether the 'abuse' label is actually unhelpful, because it has particular, often violent associations and thus women can't be convinced that someone not fitting that description is an abuser. Then it ends up being an argument about semantics and definitions of abuse, when it might just be more effective and easier to focus on a more general idea of raising standards of treatment and not putting up with unacceptable behaviour.

BelleDame, I think my ex was initially attracted to me because he perceived me to have power. It was as if "power" was a physical bundle. He liked my big bundle and thought he could take it away and then he would have a huge amount for himself and I would have none. It was a zero-sum game - no concept of partners empowering each other.

nicknametaken, i ended up in an abusive relationship despite being a feminist, etc etc etc.

what so many people dont seem to understand is that some men are predators. my ex had done the same thing before to someone else, and has carried on abusing others after me.

he knew what he was doing. he wanted to keep doing what he was doing. and society works in such a way that protects and enables male predators.

so much of the stuff i see on here while very gratifying (your DH is an arse, you deserve better etc etc) still doesnt address the culpability of the agressor. iyswim

oh and he was attracted to me because it was some sort of game i guess, much more challenging ot break down a woman who had a backbone etc etc etc. he started out on women who didnt put up much of a 'fight' and moved on to more and more 'difficult' women.

oh, and yes, everyone thought he was a great guy. really lovely.

[sighs]

Lots of abusers are attracted to strong, capable, successful women. They see them as a challenge, to feed their own messed up egos they need to reduce these strong, capable, successful people to the status of 'women' ie weak, controllable, frightened. The key to all male abusers is that they hate women and consider them less than human. Which is why a big red flag when you;re dating a bloke is a negative, sexist 'traditional' attitude to women.

I also agree with everyone who says that we need to keep emphasising that it's not just OK to be single, but a positive thing. Far, far better to be single than in a toxic, violent or even just utterly dull and draining couple-relationship. But the reason that couplehood is pushed so hard at women - that if you dn't have a man you are a failure as a female, is because couplehood benefits men in many ways - the purpose of the heteromonagamous 'ideal' is to ensure that as many men as possible have a woman to service them.

And before everyone starts - yes there are plenty of couple relationships which work fine, which are happy and life-enhancing: human beings need companionship, affection, to be special to others. Nothing wrong with that. It's just that there are lots of ways to get love and validation from those around you, not just a couple-relationship and it's pointless trying to get them from a bad couple-relationship.

SolidGoldBrass
[......its not just ok to be single but a positive thing.]

well Said.
yes i think people should be told that it can be a positive thing to be single.

ive been on my own for years and i have no intention of living with anyone again.

i am seen as odd because of this though-
and ive also been called "self indulgent"
because of this aswell.
people just see it as really odd if someone wants to be single longterm.

SParky: Yup. While I have dated (sometimes even monogamously) I have never married or lived with a partner. And I never will. And it does sometimes get very tedious having to explain to nosy mundanes yet again that no, I wasn't frightened by a sugared almond when I was little and no, there is no deep dark tragedy or hideously bad relationship in my past (a mixture of pleasant ones, OK ones and a couple of moderately-but-not-seriously crap ones) - I just don't want to live with a partner or engage in a monogamous relationship or any kind of couple relationship.

SGB at frightened by a sugared almond.

I personally don't believe it is about money and housing, as suggested earlier in the thread. Not all abused women are dependent on benefits or in low wage jobs. Like many abused women, I am well educated and have a successful career. However, I tick all the boxes when it comes to an abusive childhood. Feeling crap and powerless did indeed feel very familiar and I was used to everything being my fault.

The issue with the ad campaigns etc. is that most victims of abuse don't identify with them. That Met Police advert would never have resonated with me, I was never hit. Via work I have had discussion with clincians and academics about the research projects their doing for the Government on domestic violence. They strongly believe it should be renamed violence rather than abuse. It's very hard without 'coming out' for me to stress how alienating that is for people who experience verbal, emotional and psychological abuse. You feel violated, but not that you have experienced violence.

However I think all people have a duty to tackle it in the ways that racism was tackled in an everyday sense. OK, I know this does not apply everywhere but it is in most of society unacceptable to now talk about Paki shops and getting a chinky etc. That's the way men and women should start challenging the abusive beliefs. I talk quite openly about my ex's abuse; the amount of people who then say 'well, my partner is nowhere near as bad but...'. Invariably they tell me stuff where I end up saying that's emotional abuse. Oh no, no, it's not that bad - but they all seem to seek me out on other occasions to just check it really is that bad and this applies to men and women.

Grammar, woman, grammar!

Agree with all about making abuse unacceptable within society for all - which necessarily includes a celebration of being single.

I always said from a very early age that I felt that monogomous coupledom was not for me, everyone else either laughed or was horrified and as was very relieved when I got married.. I wish I had just listened to myself way back when..!