Rectocele and perineal descent and not coping

[Mistyskypercy]

I’ve not posted on mumsnet before but have been reading posts for about the last 10 months. I had my first baby 11 months ago at the age of 36. I was so anxious throughout my pregnancy that something would go wrong and asked the midwife to refer me to the consultant to discuss caesarean. Mainly because I’m a bit older and because I am extremely slim I worried there would be difficulties. I requested multiple times and this was never actioned until the day before I gave birth I ended up going in with bleeding but caesarean was never mentioned. When I asked the midwife about prolapses and after effects of giving birth she told me she had only seen 1 prolapse in 12 years of working as a midwife. I stupidly believed her. Well anyway I was in such a state with anxiety I was literally frozen. I’m normally quite a proactive person but this was too anxiety provoking for me. So ended up spontaneously going into labour the day after I saw consultant. It was quite fast labour and a small 6 pound baby but have done serious damage. I don’t think the midwife recognised how far along I was. When she finally checked she said 9.5cm and to start pushing. But she was very aggressive in telling me to hold my breathe and push etc it was very unpleasant. I wonder if I was in 2nd stage longer and it wasn’t recognised I don’t know. What’s concerning is when the baby was far down and she asked my partner to come and see the baby’s head and then she said one more push and it will be here, give me the biggest push ever. There was no small pushes or breaths to allow tissues to accommodate. But I was just listening to her and doing what she told me. She then also put examination jelly on my vagina to make the baby come out even faster? Has anyone heard of this? I was told very minimal damage only one small cut and 2 grazes that needed sutured which she did. Immediately I recognised that my pelvic floor felt awful I could hardly walk, but was just told it was because I gave birth and they kept telling me this for weeks. Since giving birth I have been completely unable to have a bowel motion normally. The stool moves to my rectum and causes a pressure sensation in my vagina, but on trying to pass it, my anterior vaginal wall bulges instead. I immediately knew I had serious problems and told 2 different midwifes who both said I don’t have a prolapse and I’m constipated. I knew I’m not constipated as stool going into rectum every day and I had to splint or poke it out. Even if the stool is very soft. I then went to GP 2 weeks later who also said I am probably constipated and prescribed laxatives. Was referred to nhs physio and had telephone appointment and told to do exercises. This was going on and on, pelvic floor felt so heavy and hanging down, bulge at the front and unable to poo. Went to physio in person who examined me and said no rectocele and to do pelvic floor relaxation as she thinks my muscles are tight. I went and saw a different GP about 2 or 3 months after the birth with all this still going on. She examined my vagina and bum and said no prolapses. Said I need to relax and do art therapy etc to help me relax. So this has all been going on for months by now, they know I can no longer pass stools normally but still not helping me. I should add that I’m a doctor myself and have been absolutely shocked at the care I have received throughout my pregnancy and post partum. Finally saw a gynaecologist who was in the room next door to my physio appt in April which the physio said was to reassure me - well she said that I have a cystole after everyone else saying I haven’t. This was examined lying down. She said no rectocele. Gave me a cube pessary and no information about it and said the prolapse will go back in with exercises (which I had been told not to do by physio as they wanted me to relax my pelvic floor). I then attended another nhs physio for biofeedback for the bowel 6 months after the birth. She assessed again and says to do exercises so started doing them again. She also referred me to pelvic floor doctor due to defaecation problems. Initially they weren’t going to see me and said don’t see women til at least 9 months post partum. But managed to convince them I needed see . He saw me and said rectocele and prob other things sent for proctogram which I had 10 months post partum. Just got result yesterday from physio which shows a rectocele and perineal descent. No appointment with the pelvic floor doc have phoned secretary but they are fed up of me. So I’m left 24 hours a day with feeling of my bum hanging down, something up my bum, unable to pass wind or bowel movement, very lax vagina, front wall literally hanging outside, can’t lift or be active or all this is worse. When I try to poo it feels like I’m just pushing my vagina and bum out, not their contents. The physio gave me a rectal irrigation set to try and it does help a bit but I don’t want to be left like this. 11 months now I haven’t seen or spoken to anyone just been at home as I can’t face anyone like this. Not even told my mum or partners parents. Not got any support to look after the baby as family all hours away. I have been reading the posts on here but I have given up hope as I’m scared the operations won’t help and I will have damaged my body even more for nothing. But at same time can’t be left like this. I was so active before, walking for miles, out enjoying dinner etc now I can’t do anything because of all this. Has anyone else got perineal descent and had any kind of treatment? I don’t see how any of the operations I’ve read about can help with anything because it’s all hanging so low, I don’t know how they can elevate it. The problem is I’m so thin and prob not much tissue to attach anything to? I honestly can’t believe I have been allowed to get into this mess and feel like nobody really cares or can help.

Hi OP, I didn't want to read and run - I'm not a medic but just another mum with a rectocele from childbirth injury, so FWIW here's my thoughts.

1. are you still breastfeeding? The relaxin hormones that cause so much of this laxity are still flooding your system if so. My pelvic floor physio said improvements and healing are seen for 6-18 months after the relaxin hormone clears your system - which starts happening after you stop BFing. So at 11 months PP you still have a lot of spontaneous healing that can occur.

2. how do you feel your mental health is doing? I started the "oh fuck my vag is broken" journey at 8 weeks after birth and I have no doubt it was a big factor in me getting PND after that point. It became for me a separate (albeit profoundly related) issue and if that applies to you too, then you should be able to access maternal mental health support separately to the pelvic floor teams. I found it really helpful for getting my joy back and for putting things in perspective...

3. feeling broken. Prolapse is (sadly) a very common outcome for women who give birth vaginally, and even for women who don't - I've heard the stat that it's likely around 30% of new mums and 60% of menopausal women have some degree of prolapse - so don't let shame eat you up or make you hide away. You've got a medical problem, a childbirth injury. It's nothing to be ashamed about. Talk to people who love you, talk to your friends who've had kids, join the POPS FaceBook group - that one is helpful for showing that plenty of women find ways to exercise safely, have good sex, and generally thrive despite having a prolapse.

4. getting help. It's really clear from your post that you aren't managing to successfully advocate for yourself in relation to your healthcare providers. Given you're a doctor, I wonder why that is? You didn't get the c-section you wanted (and I know a lot of women, including myself for second baby, who've managed this); you didn't get the help you needed from any of the many HCPs you've seen since you gave birth. Either you're seeing a lot of very bad medics or something in the way you communicate is the reason for this pattern - personally I've had only one bad experience, and generally feel I've had good, and some excellent, pelvic floor care. Is it possible your deep shame is stifling you in the examination room from getting the help you need?

5. long-term management strategies: From what I understand, prolapse sufferers have 3 main management/recovery strategies.
   First is pelvic floor exercises. I saw both NHS and private women's health physios to make sure my technique was the best I could make it. Then I got the Perifit device - which you insert lying down and then use it as the 'joystick' to play phone games! - and I find it fun and motivating and actually quite joyful. It also has lots of slick graphs to show your improvement over time etc which I find super-helpful. Alternatively, some people also recommend hypopressive physio training, which I haven't tried personally but could be worth a go.
   Second is pessaries. I know you were already fitted with a cube, but you didn't like it and I'm guessing aren't using it? My understanding is that a good HCP would literally try several different kinds and sizes in a 'fitting session' with you, for you to feedback what works - very much 'go for a 10 minute walk with that one and see how it feels' kind of appointment where you are fully engaged and empowered to see what helps you most. I've been told that a well-fitted pessary would act like a (semi)permanent splint, lifting everything up and holding your vaginal wall back in it's correct place so that you could defecate, exercise, go for a long walk etc without discomfort. Could you investigate trying to find that kind of service near you? This is all hearsay I'm afraid as I've not gone down that route myself.
   Third is surgery. I've discussed this with a consultant surgeon who does the ops, and based on his advice I'm avoiding this as long as possible personally. But obviously there are lots of women out there with great stories. I doubt your low weight is a reason not to go for it; the tissue they'd need to work with is all your internal pelvic floor muscles and ligaments, nothing to do with your fat reserves. I think it's a real judgement call and I personally would want to find a surgeon who I trusted absolutely, and was really listening to me, before going ahead.

So this is LONG and I've got no idea how helpful it is, really. But just want above all to let you know that there's a lot of reason for optimism; women's bodies are designed to push babies out and heal, and lots of women do heal from this, although healing maybe looks different to different people... Your life isn't over and there's a lot of help out there if you can access it.

Best of luck x

Hi, I also didn’t want to read & run…I too had posterior prolapse & had surgery for rectocele repair. Unfortunately at the time of surgery I had a 2 young children.(3 & 4 Yr old) there’s only a 15 month gap between my two. I’ve heard good things about surgery but to be honest I think I made the mistake of not resting after surgery and still picking up my youngest when I should’ve been resting for at least 6-8 weeks. My only advice to you is if you do eventually go down the route of surgery please take it easy and don’t lift for a while in order for everything to repair. I find that now if I have a bad cough or do any kind of exercise weightlifting or running, the ‘bulge’ comes back!

Not wanting to leave negative feedback but just rest!!! I’m still not going to give up there I have an appointment to get things sorted but I’m adamant that I do not want a mesh! I think many women are going through this as not talking about it. I really hope just like HRT and perimenopause is finally now in the press I hope in the near future this is talked about a lot more. I wish you all the best and don’t give up! X

Hi, have you contacted charities like MASIC, Pelvic Partnership? They might be able to advise you and help.

Also, have you been in touch with your local Maternity Voices Partnership? They would value your feedback and they may be able to signpost you.

I'm so sorry you're going through this.

Hi hun if you want to, please search and join FPOPS UK on Facebook your not alone xxxx I'm a admin on there and see this every day so many ladies going through the same. I often mention on here as not many are aware and it's so so common just never spoken of.

The other posters have given good advice especially wooly mammoth message it's lovely and lots of good info

I would like to add in if you can budget for a spire urogynaecologist appointment they are very helpful and you will be told exactly what's going on and given your options. A pelvic floor physio is a must also. There's also another helpful group called Pessaries and pelvic organ prolapse also all about pessary use as they are all trial and error.

Huge hugs xxxxx my inbox is open if you need to chat. I have 3 prolapses xx

I’ve not replied on here before so hoping this shows up in the right place..

Wooly mammoth thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed response. I was triple feeding for first 8 weeks so not for a long time about 9 months or so without breast feeding. See my mental health is ok I have no actual symptoms of anxiety or depression, I would say it’s more “distress” I’m feeling, but this is entirely as a result of the prolapses, if they weren’t there I would feel totally normal mentally and physically. I actually don’t speak to anyone at the moment, I live very rurally and no friends or family close and to be honest nobody I’d feel like sharing these issues with anyway I’m a bit detached from my mum and no other relatives that I speak to. My partner and I have been together since 2003 and his parents are lovely but live 5 hours away but it’s also not something I could speak to them about. I don’t actially have Facebook but I think I will register to see this group as I’ve seen it mentioned by different posters. I sit and think a lot about how this has all unfolded and I think it has been an unfortunate chain of events. The community midwife I had in pregnancy really was very poor and I thought a number of times of asking for another but then I thought maybe it’s me expecting too much as I have nothing to compare it to, and no friends to ask etc. And then as time went on thought best just sticking with this one. But I got impression she wasn’t giving me much info or answering my questions very well because she knew I was medical and maybe thought I already know all of this. I said to her early on I actually don’t have much knowledge or experience re pregnancy and childbirth and please can she inform me as much as possible as I found it too anxiety provoking researching info myself and reading the information they give you. But she never did. Even when it came to making a birth plan I told her I didn’t even know about any of it so how am I supposed to choose, but it was never taken seriously. When I started saying I want to see a consultant she kept saying she would request this. When I was getting closer and closer and still not heard I phoned the midwife unit about 5 or 6 times as she was on holiday and the midwifes answering the phone always said they would let the consultant know I was asking for an appointment. But it never happened. And by this time I was so messed up, people at work etc saying avoid caesarean it’s much worse , I honestly didn’t know what to think. I need to clarify as I prob sound totally ridiculous here, I’m not like this with anything else, but I had a real fear of giving birth and what would happen to me and the baby and I honestly couldn’t read about it without experiencing significant anxiety. I didn’t ask for a caesarean I just asked to speak to a consultant about the risks and benefits of births vag delivery and caesarean so I could make a more informed choice. And I had concerns about my age and my small frame for giving birth. Seeking help after the event I have no idea why it has been such a bad experience, I have made it crystal clear that I can no longer do the toilet and that it is not due to constipation, but for some reason unknown to me the physio, second GP, and gynae all were totally dismissive of this. Only the second physio. And pelvic floor doctor seem to have any interest in this. I’m not sure what to expect from a pelvic floor appointment. Both physios examined me once and confirmed I was doing exercises correctly, but from some of the posts I have read other people’s physios have been able to identify muscle avulsions and train people to work different parts of the muscle etc. Mine is just saying to do “squeezes” in general nothing more specific. I had 3 sessions of biofeedback where the machine records you squeezing and you see it on the screen via a vaginal probe. I’ve never been told a grade of my prolapses or examined standing. I thought I better see a private physio as I’m not sure this is helpful. But when I looked up private physios, the two nhs physios I have seen we’re both listed online working privately! There was another one who I contacted and the private hospital replied to say she is no longer working and they hadn’t updated the website. It’s really difficult living remotely with no childcare options trying to get to these appointments as well. I really don’t know what is stopping me getting proper help, I’m completely honest in the consultations and tell them all my symptoms in graphic detail, but this has made no difference. I honestly don’t know. I think I might get a electronic pelvic floor device, I’m not sure what one to choose, but if it helps you then maybe it’s worth a go. I’m not sure why the physio told me not to get one. It’s all so confusing and conflicting. The gynae gave me three cube pessaries in different sizes but to be honest I haven’t taken them out the packet I think I’m in some sort of denial that I require to try one, and also I’m scared it will stretch tissue up there and put pressure on other areas and make things worse, I’m prob overthinking it but these thoughts are all going through my head. Surgery is the last thing I want, but also don’t want to waste my life at this young age being how I am if surgery could potentially give me some quality of life back. I really appreciate you replying and I know nobody has the answers or a magic wand but I do appreciate your thoughts and that someone has listened/read

I think sometimes people see physio as being fobbed off, but in my experience doing the exercises religiously every day x 3 or whatever has been subscribed is well worth it with immense improvement the result, in most cases.

Hey @Mistyskypercy, great that you've found some support on MumsNet at least - lots of people know what you're going through and believe you can get support! I hope that give you some confidence that things will get better? Because they WILL - the shock of diagnosis and the struggle to work out how to go forward is definitely the worst part.

I think it would definitely be worth joining FB for the POPS groups, they are very useful places to find a tribe who will support you.

Pelvic floor exercises, with or without the device, have really helped me. At the end of the day if you lifted weights with your arms consistently you wouldn't have any doubt that you'd get stronger biceps, right? And the same is true of good kegels - they just help things feel stronger and less loose down there; it's just a question of doing them consistently, and for me the fun phone games help with motivation and daily goals.

It's a shame you haven't tried the pessaries you were given - they are medical devices and I truly believe that there's no risk of them worsening your situation - they might really help. Why not try the smallest one today? If you can find one that fits you well it might hold things in place so you can empty your bowels much more easily, and maybe even feel confident to go for some walks? I have a friend who has a ring pessary that she can keep in for sex and she really loves it, so if you don't get on with the cubes then it might be an idea to ask your GP about one of those instead...

In terms of surgery, what I was told (by a really good surgeon who I found excellent to talk to, a great listener etc) is that the average prolapse repair surgery has a 'lifespan' of 15-17 years. Very few last longer than that. When they 'fail' that can look worse than the pre-surgery state - a small % of women will become totally incontinent at that point. Most surgeries can be repeated, but not all can - it depends on the strength and health of surrounding tissues etc. I was 37 at the time of that discussion and he basically said if you can possibly delay surgery until your 60s, that's what he'd recommend! He personally never operates on women with kids younger than 6, because of what @Jaffacake76 said - you can't stick to the recovery rules on 'no lifting' if you have small kids, and that means it will 'fail' way sooner than the average...

Now, obviously some women have great surgery outcomes and total power to them! But for myself I'm keen to stay away from surgery as long as I can and manage this with non-surgical options - which looks like pelvic floor strength work for now, and then I'd consider a ring pessary if things got worse, which I think they do for some women during menopause.

It's great that your mental health is holding up well apart from this. Really wish you all the best and hope you'll feel more and more confident to get the right help for you. x

A lot older than you, but I had a very large rectocele that was causing similar problems to yours. I decided to go for the rectocele repair op, I was only in overnight and I felt fine the next day and eager to get home. I really hardly rested at all, and had virtually no pain. Actually I had to carry my bag out of the hospital myself as DH couldn't find any where to park! The repair worked great and I've had no further problems. Only my experience, but I'm really glad I did it.

Thank you second hand table and also all the ladies replying to me I really appreciate your thoughts and advice x

I have never even heard of these charities or maternity voices, I will look them up.

I’m definately going to look this up on Facebook.

It’s just so shocking how common this seems to be but even on directly asking about these sorts of things in pregnancy you don’t get told the truth, and given the opportunity to protect yourself as best you can from these things happening. It might still happen but at least you would know you had done everything you could to minimise it. I honestly had no idea.

I actually didnt go to any mums and babys groups for first 9 months of my sons life, the only place he saw was inside of my house and outside for a walk. Because I was scared of seeing all the other mums “normal”. But obviously needed to get a grip for my son as I can’t have him living like a hermit. And that’s been really tough going to these groups and seeing the other ladies lifting up babies and sitting on the floor with crossed legs etc and I feel like I’m sitting there with a bit of heavy tissue pressing up inside my bum, and my bits hanging down. But I guess to them they would never guess in a million years I’m having these issues, so for all I know one of them might be having similar difficulties. But I still feel like the only one! I will definately check the Facebook group.

I appreciate woolymammoth and bluebells positive experiences with pelvic floor exercises, especially for rectocele as I thought rectocele isn’t as responsive to them as some of the other problems, but you have given me hope to keep trying. I think I have been doing them for about 5 months now and the heavy feeling at the front feels less, but the heavy feeling inside my rectum/anus is always there still, and infact I think my bowel evacuation problems are getting worse, I can rarely go without using the rectal irrigation set and even then I also have to splint or manually assist, I’m feeling like this is a pretty severe case and getting worse. I will keep trying exercises though, just a small improvement would be so much appreciated at this stage. Just thinking to myself that’s almost a year since I’ve been living like this. Sounds ridiculous but it’s weird just remembering what it used to be like being able to do the toilet normally. Just took that for granted back then. It’s all the time it takes up as well using the irrigation set.

@Mistyskypercy do the heaviness and bulging feel any better when you lie down with your legs bent feet on the floor/bed? Im just asking as I started having prolapse symptoms a few years ago, literally overnight they just appeared. I was walking to meet friend thinking what the fuck is going on, it felt like I had a bowling ball attached to my vagina.

I had to google it and I had never heard of a prolapse, I don't have children but think men was caused by peri menopause. Anyway cue panicking from me, and I came across an Australian woman who has a you tube channel and she says to start exercises lying down as organs are better placed in this position. I also bought a device which helped a lot.

Your symptoms do sound worse than mine, but I am Pretty much symptom free now. At certain times of the month they do return but only for a day .

I live in the SW pretty rurally and I can understand the issue you have there regarding services.

@Mistyskypercy just saw your update about not being able to have a "normal' BM, that sounds awful after all this time it is still going on. When you see the consultant/physio and you explain this what is their exact response? Its terrible that this seems to be accepted, you can't be expected to live like this.

Sorry for too much detail, but what happens if you wait until you really need to go, do you still get the feeling of pressure in the rectum? I remember feeling like I hadn't fully emptied my bowels.

Its so nice hearing a positive outcome, thank you for sharing Thymely. When you say rectocele repair, did you have the one where they stitch up from inside the vagina, or the one where they do the operation through your bum? It’s just helpful to know other peoples experiences. Obviously every case and everyone’s anatomy is different, but it’s nice to know people can have a good outcome after all this. Did you go privately for your treatment or was it NHS? I need to find out about good private care in Scotland if anyone has any recommendations they can share, as I’m not having much progress with NHS. Even just a consultant appointment to actually know what is going on, because right now I don’t really know and that just adds to the stress and uncertainty of all this.

Have you listened the podcast “why mums don’t jump”? It’s all about prolapses and hopefully breaking down some of the taboos and helping women feel less alone and “broken”.
Just as an extra to all this great advice above

@Mistyskypercy

I am so sorry about what you are going through. I can highly recommend a surgeon - Dr Abdalla Fayaad

www.bedfordshirehospitals.nhs.uk/clinical-staff/dr-abdalla-fayyad/

He is absolutely wonderful and so helpful and reassuring. I had several problems post childbirth and needed surgery and have not looked back.

OP you can contact your local private hospital and ask for recommendations, or if you know any doctors ask them - I have friends who are consultants in other fields to what I need and they are always happy to give names to approach.

Fwiw, I have been pushing with my hand most times I've had a poo for years and I've only recently realised this isn't normal!

I had a female physio app last week and she suggested I have a mild bowel prolapse and has checked how I do my pelvic floor exercises and sent me off with a plan of action. It turns out I wasn't doing them right and trying to do them for too long, so failing.

I hope when I go back she can tell there has been some progress!

Good luck finding a consultant.

@Mistyskypercy
I saw Dr Fayaad privately at Spire Harpenden

@Mistyskypercy i feel your pain! I’m currently trying to find a private gyno for a surgery consultation. I’m terrified of surgery but can’t go on feeling like this! Health is important mental health too!

@Thymely was your symptoms bad did you get on nhs? It’s good to hear a good outcome! How long have you had the repair ?

When I’m lying down the heaviness in my vagina and perineum subsides, but the pressure and heaviness in my rectum is still there, it’s always there. I actually have been noticing over last few months that I cannot pass wind when I’m lying down. It’s as if in that position a flap of loose tissue or internal rectal prolapse or something falls down on the inside of my anus or something and stops it opening. When I bear down as if to pass the wind all that happens is that I push my perineum and prolapses down, the wind doesn’t come out. So I’m left like that all night unless I get up. Even when I’m upright it’s sometimes difficult. I noticed that if I’m walking and feel like I need to pass wind, I need to stop walking and stand still to pass the wind? And sometimes helps to press on my perineum to stop the pressure going down there instead of out my bum. It’s an awful sensation, it’s like my vagina is held open all the time when I’m walking about or upright and I feel like I can sense cold air going up it. But at same time feel downwards pressure/heavy. I’m thinking the sensation in my bum is internal rectal prolapse or rectal descent or Intussusception but as far as I know these weren’t noted on the proctogram. It said perineal descent and rectocele.

I honestly have told 2 GPs, a gynae consultant, 2 physios, 2 midwifes, and the pelvic floor/colorectal doc. The 1st GP kept saying I had constipation, it was quite soon after the birth but I kept saying no my stool is soft. She was more fixated on my mental health than anything, and I said of course I’m anxious about my Bowel and this problem, anybody would be! But apart from that I’m not anxious or depressed at all. The 2nd GP basically made me feel like I was mental, she kept saying I need anxiety management and to go to art therapy and that it’s all in my head basically. She also told me not to manually evacuate when I told her I was having to do this, and I was so upset cos what else does she expect me to do, go to hospital every week with faecal Impaction requiring surgical removal?? Who in their right might would choose to have to do this instead of just going to the toilet normally if they could, I actually can’t believe she said that to me as if I had a choice. I was absolutely shocked at her. She also told me that nothing I do will make a prolapse worse and I need to bear down more and push it out? And despite me saying several times the stool is soft, still wanting me to take laxatives. I had a further consultation with her a few weeks later and obv told her things no different and I want referred to colorectal and she point blank refused because she could not feel a rectocele examining me. She didn’t know what a rectocele was, I had to tell her. The first physio kept telling me to put my legs on a stool and eat more fibre and do pelvic floor muscle relaxation instead of contractions. This was early on and I followed her advice hoping it would help. I tried using a stool multiple times but it made no difference. The gynae told me that they wouldn’t operate and I need conservative management and said that there are 300 operations for pelvic floor repairs and only 2 for hip replacements and why do I think that is - because none of them work, that as her exact words. She examined me and said no rectocele and because she couldn’t feel anything she totally dismissed everything I was telling her about my bowel difficulties. The 2nd physio took my concerns more seriously and contacted the colorectal pelvic floor consultant. He replied saying he doesn’t see women before 9 months post partum as they May improve themself. But I then phoned his secretary to say I need seen as can’t go on like this and I’m getting worse and not better. So he squeezed me in at the end of a clinic. It was him who said I def have a rectocele on examination and maybe other things but didn’t want to say til I had a proctogram. He suggested rectal irrigation set which I am using daily. I haven’t seen him since and have phoned his sec to get an appointment now that I’ve had the proctogram but she keeps saying no clinic til Dec/jan.. Since I last saw him I’m def worse, I told the physio this at my last appt and she said she will update him.. So I’m not sure if the physio is thinking I need an operation, she just said see what the consultant says.

Just realised I never answered what you asked. If I wait longer to empty my bowel I get the sensation of stretching and more intense pressure in my vagina, and on touching it I can feel a mass inside my vagina which is the stool. I don’t think the stool gets far enough down my rectum to stimulate a rectal sensation of needing a poo, I rarely get this feeling now, what I tend to get is a sensation in my vagina. It feels like my vagina is more open at these times, as if the stool is propping it open? It’s bloody awful.

@Mistyskypercy That sounds so incredibly frustrating , you are repeatedly telling healthcare professionals and they are not taking you seriously.

I would go back to the GP who said no rectocele and tell her what the Gynae said and put her on the spot, its quite well known that prolapses are hard to feel. I was told that standing up was required and even then its not a given.
As well as lifting weights, running and straining on the toilet are all things you shouldn't do.

That makes me so angry thinking about what the Gp said, as if you would be choosing to manually evacuate rather than just having a poo!

Thank you ladies who have suggested the podcast and private consultants, I’ve never actually listened to a podcast before I will need to do this. It’s prob obv by now I’m a complete technophobe..

I actually thought of going down to London or one of the bigger cities in England if I can’t find anyone in Scotland, but my difficulty is I have no childcare at all, and then I was thinking how would I travel back up to Scotland with sutures up my bum without damaging the repair during the journey.

Thank you for everybodies thoughts and suggestions though it means a lot x