Key feminist texts for me to read and leave lying about the house for dd?

[HRHQueenElizabethII]

Spurred on by musings from another thread: I've read almost no feminist writings, and was one of those women in my early 20s who rejected the term; through not understanding it.

I've been extraordinarily lucky - I've had strong female role models, but find myself more feminist than them, and have married a man who's clearly a "natural" feminist - though he hasn't read the literature either. But so much of what I read and see makes me want to buy some key texts, past and current, so that dd will have access to them as she grows up, and so understand the contexts and conditions which will influence the choices she makes in the future, and those made by people she comes into contact with.

Anyone fancy giving me a reading list?

Thanks for the quote HRH Actually I am just like you, on a day to day basis fairly oblivious about how I look, and although I did have a bit of a crisis about how I looked as a teenager, it was to do with being too tall and androgynous, and once I went to university and found a tall bloke the anxiety pretty much disappeared.

My daughter on the other hand is already hung up on shoes and dresses, and whilst it is a real pleasure to go shopping with her because she is so appreciative I do worry that her self esteem might be too shallow.

I don't want to take my mother's line and have no pink or frills or basically anything that looks nice for her (I sometimes slightly wonder whether my mother just doesn't like women and that's why she brought up her three daughters the way she did and why she can be so catty about her three beautiful feisty lovely grandaughters).

I like the idea that you can be feminine and strong and make your life what you will. I just think the latter is the important bit!

However on the plus side dd told me very seriously that being a good person/friend was all about how you acted not how you looked, so maybe I'm over worrying!

I'll admit that I have done things - not so much to please men, as to not be seen as a PITA or a ball breaker - at work which I have had serious misgivings about.

I worked in a very macho environment where all my counterparts and all my senior colleagues were men.

I wish I'd had the courage to stand up to them sometimes - especially over the occasional homophobia and sexism that went on.

But you live and learn. Am in my mid thirties now and don't care as much about what men think.

I really hope my daughters get wise to this more quickly than I did.

I'm thinking that a book about bodies and how they work might be good, actually - will look for our bodies ourselves. Because I want her to be impressed and amazed by (say) how her feet work, how this extraordinary structure allows her to walk, and jump, and stand on tip toe, and to properly understand her body, and to be impressed and amazed by it. I have v. sturdy thighs, and a v. wobbly stomach, but woah - it grew a baby! How cool is that? etc etc.

That has got to be a good start, anyway. And something that doesn't have to wait too long!

Susie Orbach's new Bodies is a great up to date critique of the whole plastic surgery, body fascism thing which is endemic among young women.

QE;...i'm sorry i didn't mean to piss you off....but do you understand what i'm saying here?...your dd will grow up and prob get married, she will dress to attract men, she'll wear make-up... and when she get's married she'll cook and clean for him...nothing you can do to stop that.

Why? Why will she? Yes, I can see what you're saying, but I have no idea WHY you're saying it? Why is it a given? Why won't she assume that any partner of hers, male or female, won't do any equal share? She sees her father doing an equal share - of everything. He cooks, cleans, irons, looks after her, plus we both have PhDs and good jobs - why on earth will she not see us as anything but equal, and assume she deserves the same?

Why should she dress simply "to attract men" - she won't learn that from me or her father. What the fuck makes you such an expert on this, and if you think that's true, why aren't you filled with rage about it?

God, I am surprised how angry I am at this! I just think about my wonderful daughter, and the world full of opportunities that awaits her, and am incensed that some internet stranger thinks that these choices will be blinkered by her gender alone.

If that were true I'd never have gone to university, never done postgrad work, never achieved what I have, never waited to meet the man who I knew was my equal and would treat me with the respect I deserved.

Daftpunk - I think you are deliberately missing the point.

..i've read pretty much every book on this thread..yet i've spent all day tidying up and looking after dc...and now i'm putting the dinner on.....just so dh can come home to a tidy house and food......what is the point in me getting angry?...QE, it's a fact of life for most women.

God, I'm with Q Elizabeth on this. I'm sure her daughter will dress to make herself feel good, and sometimes to be attractive to someone she cares about (who, if s/he cares about her will be dressing to please her).

Cooking and cleaning for a man? No, unless that is the distribution of tasks they have fairly agreed to.

Even now it's not impossible to live like that, unless you are living with a caveman. And I ould certainly expect it for our children's generation.

Fab thread HRH, I'm amazed by how much of this I have read and still have on my bookshelves .

As well as practically everything listed above, I would add Kim Chernin's Womansize (similar ground to Fat is a Feminist Issue), and Penelope Shuttle and Peter Redgrove The Wise Wound (a different take on menstruation and the monthly cycle). Ann Oakley and Beatrice Campbell did a lot of work on the politics of the UK, like Campbell's book Iron Ladies (why women vote Tory), all of which were influential on my thinking at the time.

For your DD, try David McKee Snow Woman, Anthony Browne Piggybook, Louise Pfanner Louise builds a house.

Later, there are things like Bill's New Frock and The Angel of Nitshill Road by Anne Fine, Jeremy Strong's My Granny's Great Escape, and Spy Dog by Andrew Cope for a good fun, seriously cool, brave and intelligent (female) dog - (highly recommended by my P3 children!)

Why? Why do you do it then? Why shouldn't your DH cook? Lots of things were "facts of life" for women - not being able to vote, rape being legal in marriage, etc etc. there was a point to getting angry about that.

I could not live like you, if that's how you think. It sounds like hell. I'll get angry about crap and injustice until they cart me off.

That's what I was trying to say, Robes, and daftpunk is ignoring - my dd sees equality in our household - her father is a brilliant feminist role model. Why on earth should she expect any less for herself?

My mum assumed as daftpunk does. And she thought that that would make us happy and fulfilled. And weirdly she had also taken on enough of the feminist message to bring us up not to prettify ourselves (although I think she got awfully muddled on that one). As daughters we all looked at my parents lifestyle and choices and decided that the role model to follow was my father. Good job, interesting life, and looked after by my mother. The only thing we thought was wrong there was that he didn't spend enough time at home with us, and that as a result he lost out (although he had good relationships with us once we hit 12 or so).

We have all pursued careers and have chosen partners that support that for one reason or another (not always good reasons - I'm not saying we've got it right!).

I am raising my children (son and daughter) to both be respectful and tolerant of others. To be helpful (although that's still something they both struggle with!) and to accept help graciously. To use their skills and talents in the best way they can to become whatever they want to be. Along the way I want to make sure they are both comfortable in their skin and happy with who they are. The challenges for each of them will be different, as will the pressures, but I'm certainly not going to give up and say well that's just how it is. I would see that as a total dereliction of my parental duty.

In the BIWI house I do the cooking and he does the clearing up. Before we had our cleaner, DH did all the cleaning as well. He empties the bins, does the washing, tidies up, empties the dishwasher every morning and makes me my coffee first thing.

It's because we are equal mates, who have different skills and ways in which to contribute to the household.

Oh, and I do all the driving.

DCs (both boys) will - I hope - have grown up witnessing this.

of course women should be able to vote..have equal rights at work etc....but where relationships are concerned it's different....and fwiw...i'm very happy...i'd hate to be "out there" competing with men...trying to drink 12 pints...oh how feminin...

i wont be shoving the female eunuch down my dd's throats...waste of time.

DP - you can be feminine and still be a feminist, I would argue.

And competing with men isn't about drinking competitions down the pub. That would be to ignore the basic physiolgical differences that exist between men and women.

Daftpunk, I can't believe that you aren't deliberately misunderstanding HRH's aspirations for her daughter. She doesn't want her daught er to be like a man. She wants equality of respect and opportunity, and she doesn't want her daughter's life trammelled by restrictions imposed by society, rather than biology.

physiological, even!

I would also say that I often silently thank previous generations of women for the educational opportunities I have had (and will have.)

Am a SAHM pregnant with DC3 and will not be going back to work for, realistically, two years (childcare, another feminist issue!)

If I did not have the prospect of returning to a stimulating job after looking after the little ones, I would be hitting the gin big time.

My grandmother was a fiercely intelligent working class woman who won a place at grammar school but was forced to leave with no qualifications because her father didn't believe in educating girls.

Sometimes Daftpunk it is easy to take things for granted.

i like 'reasonable creatures' by katha pollitt, and for dd, ramona quimby, pippi longstocking, anastasia krupnik (more pre-teen) all un-princessy heroines to enjoy

The sad thing is, Daftpunk's daughter probably will be doing all she can to please men for the rest of her days. We are after all highly influenced by the way we are nurtured... which is the whole point of this thread actually.

I won't sending my daughter the message that a life of domestic servitude, under a man, is already mapped out for her.