Key feminist texts for me to read and leave lying about the house for dd?

[HRHQueenElizabethII]

Spurred on by musings from another thread: I've read almost no feminist writings, and was one of those women in my early 20s who rejected the term; through not understanding it.

I've been extraordinarily lucky - I've had strong female role models, but find myself more feminist than them, and have married a man who's clearly a "natural" feminist - though he hasn't read the literature either. But so much of what I read and see makes me want to buy some key texts, past and current, so that dd will have access to them as she grows up, and so understand the contexts and conditions which will influence the choices she makes in the future, and those made by people she comes into contact with.

Anyone fancy giving me a reading list?

I read this years ago and it's wonderful.

Well, Canterbury Tales and medieval women in general I can do - dd will have to read them in the original, natch. Preferably by the time she's 6.

What's really interesting me about this thread is the diverse approaches people have taken to reach the same conclusion. I like flossie's mum - critical thinking is obviously key, not just for feminism, but for a life lived and understood well.

Also I've been mulling on Fennel's point - what will my daughter be facing in 14/15 years time? But in some ways all the more reason for me to make books from a range of feminist writers and eras available to her, and, just as importantly, to read them myself.

I've been thinking about this a lot today - me and my sister are very very different in this regard, and I don't know quite how that happened - same parents, same schools until age 16, then I went to a diff. 6th form, and on to Uni, etc, which had never interested dsis. She has two daughters, around the same age as dd, and is much more into the dressing them in pink/send to ballet stuff than I am. I think she'd think I was being ridiculous.

I would say we didn't grow up in a feminist household, but my mother is a strong woman, whose educational achievements don't reflect at all an intellectual curiosity and confidence to admit what she doesn't know and ask for help which I've found really valuable and inspiring. That said, she also thinks my ranting about gendered toys in the ELC catalogue are pointless. So where did all my thinking come from, then?

Not non-fiction, but E Nesbit in "The Last of the Dragons". The stories turn gender stereotypes on their heads, despite being written a century ago.

Thought I'd also copy over nooka's post from the shaved pubic hair dicussion, as it's pertinent:
"I wonder how many women look at themselves before having a smear and think they should trim/tidy etc? There have been a fair few childbirth threads on this topic, and I suspect it is part of the almost hatred of our bodies that women seem to have a penchant for. I really worry about this for my daughter who is already caught up in the "I am how I look" approach to life at only 8. I give her lots and lots of positive stuff about the person she is being way way way more important, but I suspect she thinks I'm just being mummy-nice. My son is utterly oblivious to how he looks and I would so like my dd to feel the same way at least for a few more years. As it happens she is pretty, but it is her character that people comment on (she is very outgoing) and I'd love for her to be able to see that.

If there are good books for helping mums to pre-liberate their daughters before the prevailing rubbish that society throws at them sinks too far in then I'd be very interested."

I seem, somehow, to have spent my childhood and teenage years almost oblivious to this stuff - lord alone knows how, but it was a blessing, and I have no idea how to pass it on to dd.

Susie Orbach - Fat is a Feminist Issue and Bodies. These are both great and while you're daughter may not be interested till she is much older, you might like to have a look. Also The Beauty Myth by Naomi Wolf.

Also, though this isn't specifically to do with feminism or beauty issues it is a very interesting documentary about the way in which our anxieties are manipulated to get us to buy things (which is also what Susie Orbach talks about in Bodies). I think that the best thing you can do for your daughter is show her how in being excessively anxious about her appearance she is being manipulated into self-destructive introspection by the dynamics of a consumer society (again, obv she prob won't get this till she's older! Nonetheless, if you sow the seeds...). Get her outside, get her reading, get her to galleries, show her what is beautiful in nature and human endeavour and I bet you, she'll develop a good sense of perspective and grow into a fine young woman, like her mother.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Century_of_the_Self

oops! forgot the link

My mum always just told me I was beautiful - no fuss, no nothing, just the odd moment of maternal admiration, which was lovely. I didn't really grow into my looks until mid twenties/thirty, and am also glad about that.

My dd is gorgeous - she's 2, and I'm her mother, and her dad is gorgeous - go figure the bias there! I see no harm in telling her so - I want her to like the her she sees in the mirror, just as I like what I see, flaky skin and all.

But the difference between me and my sister does puzzle me, and maybe I worry too much - my sister is a lovely, kind woman who has finally realised what a decent man is and married one .

I just don't want dd to get into the anxious-about-appearance stuff from the start. But am I just hopelessly naive? Can I hope to pass on my own cheerful obliviousness in the face of what she'll be bombarded with?

That is worrying, Lenin, and so sad - and because I've never felt that way, I can't imagine dd feeling it either, but why shouldn't she? I don't have any magical powers to protect her from it. I shall just have to keep reading her Emily Brown until she's ready for the Beauty Myth...

op; you can give her as many books as you like...most women will grow up doing all they can to please men..

Great, thanks, daftpunk. That comment has actually really really pissed me off.

it's true

Oh daftpunk, I am so rarely rude on here but you come out with such utter CRAP sometimes. Most women? How the hell do you know? Have you studied this? Are you an expert or just over-opinionated?

Well Daftpunk, as it is women who raise men, it is extremely important that feminist issues are discussed.

I hope my daughters are sufficiently self confident to know they're role in life is not to please a man.

And I hope they raise boys who respect women and know how to put a wash on.

sorry 'their' - fucks sake I used be a sub editor

'Most women will grow up doing all they can to please men.'

Therefore, don't bother? What sort of a f*cking argument is that, DP?

1. Don't agree with your premise - show me the evidence that most women do all they can to please men.
2. Don't see the inconsistency between being pleasant to other human beings (including men) and being a feminist - that's more about standing up for yourself and your rights than 'displeasing men'
3. Can't begin to understand why, even if 1) and 2) were true, the OP shouldn't attempt to help her daughter discover a different way of thinking.

can you honestly tell me you haven't done anything just to please a man?....because if you come back and say no...i'll suspect you're forgetful

Thanks, smallorange - I got bizarrely angry there - just outraged that the "fate" of my wonderful daughter was to "want to please men". Thankfully it really isn't something she sees at home, other than her mummy and daddy being kind and thoughtful to each other as equals.

I just got all maternal tiger and saw red...

I refer you to point 2) in my argument Daftpunk. It's perfectly possible to be feminist and do nice things for other people, including men.

It's not about pissing all over them at every opportunity, FFS

Oh ffs, daftpunk - of course I have. I've let him put a BrightEyes CD on in the car on a long car journey. It was hell.

But that's because he's my partner, and we are kind to each other, as friends and partners. And then he will sit through the Archers in the car for me. That's equality. It's not me debasing myself because I'm a woman.