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New Year, New Fallen Woman: Elizabeth Gaskell's Ruth Readalong

586 replies

BishyBarnyBee · 28/12/2023 07:42

Following the very successful Madame Bovary readalong, we have decided to explore another woman who refused to be bound by contemporary mores.
So shocking at the time, two of Gaskell's friends burnt their copies.

"Elizabeth Gaskell's Ruth (1853) was the first mainstream novel to make a fallen woman its eponymous heroine. It is a remarkable story of love, of the sanctuary and tyranny of the family, and of the consequences of lies and deception, one that lays bare Victorian hypocrisy and sexual double-standards. Shocking to contemporary readers, its radical utopian vision of a pure woman faithfully presented predates Hardy's Tess by nearly forty years."

We will aim for two chapters a week - a weekend chapter and a mid week chapter. If I have time, I'll try and do a ChatGPT chapter summary, but anyone else is welcome to jump in if I haven't got there first.

We start 1st Jan, so if you are up for a bit of Victorian passion, guilt, regret and redemption, sign up here!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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babybythesea · 18/02/2024 22:57

Just dropping in to say I’m still here!
It’s been a mad few weeks. A busy week at work followed by a week in bed with flu and a complete inability to read due to extreme high temperature and dizziness for 3 days and then a few days of just falling asleep constantly. I’d forgotten how bad flu can be.
That was Followed by a week back at work but failing to read because I was so tired in the evening. And then half term and children to occupy, and a child who broke her arm.
We are now back on course and I have almost caught up. I’m about to start chapter 13 - I’ve been reading the discussion after each chapter which has given me new things to think about every time.

I have also learnt (after 16 years on here!!) what the buttons at the bottom of the posts do - thank you to the poster who explained them! I’ve never even looked at them let alone tried them out!

Back to Ruth - I’m at the point where she’s just arrived at the Benson house. There’s all the hints that them taking her will not turn out right, but I can’t help wondering whether any option was a good option. If we could do a Sliding Doors thing, would she have thrived any better if they hadn’t taken her? She is so naive, no understanding of money etc - I can’t help
thinking whatever happens now, it’s no more of a disaster than any other course of action.

Also, I assumed fairly early on they were having sex although it wasn’t mentioned- as soon as they were sleeping in the one room in Wales I figured it was happening. But did she know??
What I mean is, if she is that young and naive, did she realise that it is this action that people condemn? She probably wouldn’t have been told anything about it so did she not have any negative associations and therefore no reason not to do it, if he wanted to? Hence the lack of understanding that people might condemn her and being taken by surprise when it happens. She trusts and loves him, he does it, presumably behaves as though it’s normal, she knows no different. Does she connect it with her pregnancy I wonder?

narniabusiness · 18/02/2024 23:00

Absolutely @cassandre I think you have it spot on. I’ve always thought that the strict prohibition against sex before marriage had more to do with the financial cost of supporting the mother and child before the welfare state, when the burden fell on parishioners. They may not have wanted to admit that though. Once we had a decent welfare state and childcare that enabled women to work by the 1970s, unmarried mothers became more accepted.

BishyBarnyBee · 19/02/2024 07:17

Chapter 15
In which charity causes offence and the birth of Ruth's baby causes her to reflect on Billingham's limitations as a man and as a father, and resolve to be a pure and self-sacrificing mother.

Ruth is excited to receive a parcel but her hopes are dashed when she realises it is just a charitable offering from the Bradshaws. She is offended and is minded to return it but Thurston shares his own feelings about being patronised by Bradshaw and she decides to keep it. It prompts her to sew a fine wardrobe for the baby and a simple one for herself. The sewing does not completely occupy her mind, and she struggles with reflection and remembrance.

Miss Benson tries to be supportive but is irritated by Ruth's drooping sorrow and unsure whether she will be able to love the child. However, the birth of the beautiful, innocent child works its magic on all of them and draws the household together.

Ruth is reluctant to sleep and miss a moment of motherhood, but her exhausted thoughts become gloomy as she realises her baby has no father. The purity of her love for the child shows Billingham's behaviour in a new light and she realises his self indulgence and immorality would make him a terrible father. She dreams that her son grows up to be a seducer, dragged into the same pit of horrors where Billingham cries out that he had not heeded the words of God and was condemned to burn. She wakes from her nightmare in terror to find she is holding her soft warm babe. Her fervent prayers strengthen her and she grows in wisdom and self-forgetting faith.

OP posts:
Buttalapasta · 19/02/2024 07:28

cassandre · 18/02/2024 18:29

Maybe as I read on, I'll feel more love for Sally, but at the moment I can't forgive her for cutting Ruth's hair. It does seem like an act meant to shame her and put her in her place. And I'm miffed by Ruth's dignified submission to the hair cutting as well. I would rather she told Sally to fuck off. 😳

And I agree with your remark, Piggy, about being piety-ed out.

That said, it's certainly an interesting glimpse into cultural norms. It's just all the negative judgment of pregnancy out of wedlock that I find difficult to endure. And Ruth's participation in the self-flagellation.

However, today's chapter does have a go at the local lord-of-the-manor type Mr Bradshaw and his self-aggrandising acts of piety! I'm on board with that.

I don't see Sally in such a harsh light. I think she is fiercely loyal to the Bensons and wants to protect them and herself from the ruinous consequences of the village finding out the truth. Of course, when she cuts her hair, she doesn't even know Ruth. For all she knows, she is a freeloader who has taken advantage of the kindness and ingenuous nature of her employers.

BishyBarnyBee · 19/02/2024 08:12

Sorry for the late summary, a busy weekend here. Lovely to log on and find lots of discussion.

@Midnightstar76, @Piggywaspushed @JamesGiantPledge1 @cassandre yes, a few of us have found this part dragging - the heavy handed exploring of moral questions and Christian values is quite alien to us now. Though maybe in some ways AIBU is a kind of modern equivalent where people explore moral issues around behaviour, but without the religious lens?

@FuzzyCaoraDhubh I agree Sally and Faith are well rounded characters and a good counterpart to the almost too perfect Thurston. That kindly, wise person, gently nudging the behaviour of the more thoughtless but basically good hearted, feels very familiar (Mrs March from Little Women comes to mind) but sometimes too priggish and perfect to be quite believable. But as @ShabanahFazal points out, they make a great team and balance each other. Ruth and Faith have not quite established that yet, but the baby shifts the dynamic and they are able to pull together as a new team around his needs.

@Midnightstar76 yes, Ruth's moping has been irritating me for a few chapters now, and I have had to remind myself that she has been through a terrible trauma and it's nearly broken her. It is always interesting to see behaviour we can relate to through a 21st century lens, and the description what is obviously depression and Faith's irritation with it rings very true.

@narniabusiness glad you found us.

Some great points comparing the book to Tess and Madame Bovary. It's years since I read Tess, but I enjoyed the Ockham's Razor Circus performance of it at the Lowry last week, and they describe "the radical nature of it and the strength and heroism of Tess". I will probably re-read, but Tess does seem to be more in touch with her own sexuality and have more agency than Ruth does. But in many ways Ruth will have paved the way for Tess.

I've also just re-read the French Lieutenant's Woman, which gives us a very different Victorian Fallen Woman - but obviously one written with the benefit of hindsight in the 1970s, so not surprisingly more in tune with our values and understanding.

Looking forward to Chapter 16!

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BishyBarnyBee · 19/02/2024 08:31

babybythesea · 18/02/2024 22:57

Just dropping in to say I’m still here!
It’s been a mad few weeks. A busy week at work followed by a week in bed with flu and a complete inability to read due to extreme high temperature and dizziness for 3 days and then a few days of just falling asleep constantly. I’d forgotten how bad flu can be.
That was Followed by a week back at work but failing to read because I was so tired in the evening. And then half term and children to occupy, and a child who broke her arm.
We are now back on course and I have almost caught up. I’m about to start chapter 13 - I’ve been reading the discussion after each chapter which has given me new things to think about every time.

I have also learnt (after 16 years on here!!) what the buttons at the bottom of the posts do - thank you to the poster who explained them! I’ve never even looked at them let alone tried them out!

Back to Ruth - I’m at the point where she’s just arrived at the Benson house. There’s all the hints that them taking her will not turn out right, but I can’t help wondering whether any option was a good option. If we could do a Sliding Doors thing, would she have thrived any better if they hadn’t taken her? She is so naive, no understanding of money etc - I can’t help
thinking whatever happens now, it’s no more of a disaster than any other course of action.

Also, I assumed fairly early on they were having sex although it wasn’t mentioned- as soon as they were sleeping in the one room in Wales I figured it was happening. But did she know??
What I mean is, if she is that young and naive, did she realise that it is this action that people condemn? She probably wouldn’t have been told anything about it so did she not have any negative associations and therefore no reason not to do it, if he wanted to? Hence the lack of understanding that people might condemn her and being taken by surprise when it happens. She trusts and loves him, he does it, presumably behaves as though it’s normal, she knows no different. Does she connect it with her pregnancy I wonder?

Sorry you've had a rough few weeks, glad things are better now.

Really interesting point about how much Ruth understood about what they had done.

She would have known it was wrong to associate with men, but possibly not why. So this is kind of the irony of it - she'd lost her job when they were seen standing close together and hadn't done anything we would consider at all sexual. Then losing her job forced her to rely on B to survive - and then she would do anything he wanted.

In the performance of Tess, they made a big thing out of the fact her mother hadn't warned her what men would want to do, so she was completely innocent.

But Ruth and Tess might have known more than we think. Ruth lived in a dormitory with other girls, who may well have talked about sexual matters. And both Ruth and Tess were raised in the countryside where they would have seen animals mating, and there would probably have been ribald comments, so they might have had more awareness than the books imply.

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FuzzyCaoraDhubh · 19/02/2024 10:01

Hi @BishyBarnyBee thank you for your summary as always. I particularly liked 'drooping sorrow' which I think is very apt for Ruth. I was thinking back on Emma Bovary and wondered if she ever shed a tear for anyone or even for herself. I don't think so. She was as hard as nails!

I'm sorry to hear that things have been so tough recently @babybythesea Wishing you well! I think Gaskell wants the reader to consider Ruth as a complete innocent although as Bishy points out, is it likely that she didn't have any knowledge at all of the facts of life or morality? I think if we had seen more of an internal struggle on her part about taking up with Bellingham, she might have been a more interesting and realistic character. The fact that she is being punished for something that was done to her is hard to accept.

I hope you all enjoy chapter 16!

Piggywaspushed · 19/02/2024 10:17

Tess definitley knew sex produced babies as she looked after her mother's. However, I'm not sure Tess ever knew that it could be predatory, or how men like Alec take advantage of naivete (and tiredness in her case).

I am pretty sure Ruth knows what sex is too - all young girls will have looked after babies and will have known of local women who had been taken in by the community or cast out, (community depending...)., hence her shame. What she did seem prior to her desertion was oblivious to how she was being used.

Buttalapasta · 19/02/2024 12:08

I agree about Tess @Piggywaspushed . I always thought that Tess knew about sex but was naive about men. It was actually pretty common for brides to be pregnant on their wedding day. Her mistake was trusting Alex to behave decently. After all, she thought he was a distant relative so that lulled her into a false sense of security. With Ruth I'm not sure. She seems more naive with nobody really explaining anything to her.

TheWriteStuff · 19/02/2024 13:17

I also read Tess as knowing sex leads to pregnancy but not knowing how predatory men can be. She was cautious of Alec but maybe not enough to well and truly keep away. (That sounds a bit like I am blaming Tess, which I am not.)

I am not sure with Ruth though, either. I think that her orphan status, combined with her neglectful guardian afterwards, means there may have been little interaction with motherhood. i.e. no one to tell her and no one to observe.

However, she did then live in a dorm with girls at the sewing house and I wonder how much chatter there might have been to 'enlightened' her? Maybe enough to cause her to link sex with pregnancy but maybe nont enough to truly believe it or know exactly what act leads to pregnancy, the likelihood etc.

p.s. I actually really like Sally who, while being sharp and grumpy, is clearly still trying to do the best for everyone. I especially liked her getting very offended at the idea she was upset at Ruth because it would bring her some trouble and that she was trying to avoid it.

ShabanahFazal · 19/02/2024 13:30

cassandre · 18/02/2024 18:29

Maybe as I read on, I'll feel more love for Sally, but at the moment I can't forgive her for cutting Ruth's hair. It does seem like an act meant to shame her and put her in her place. And I'm miffed by Ruth's dignified submission to the hair cutting as well. I would rather she told Sally to fuck off. 😳

And I agree with your remark, Piggy, about being piety-ed out.

That said, it's certainly an interesting glimpse into cultural norms. It's just all the negative judgment of pregnancy out of wedlock that I find difficult to endure. And Ruth's participation in the self-flagellation.

However, today's chapter does have a go at the local lord-of-the-manor type Mr Bradshaw and his self-aggrandising acts of piety! I'm on board with that.

I think one very revealing detail about Sally that helped me forgive her sooner rather than later was her secretly keeping a few locks of Ruth’s hair. Whilst it’s clearly hypocritical and might make some readers hate her even more at this point, I thought it humanised her, as it suggests she knew she’d done wrong to destroy such a fine head of hair and the glossy locks would be a private rebuke to her. You may find that too charitable, but it surely reveals more subtlety and complexity to her character and feelings at this point than her brusque, savage actions would suggest.

In contrast to Sally’s energy and spiritedness, much as I feel for Ruth here, she’s becoming more and more infuriatingly passive and one-dimensional. She’s now just feels like Gaskell’s Fallen Woman Who Must Be Redeemed at All Costs - a vehicle for the author’s moral purpose and necessary narrative arc more than an unpredictable, realistic human character. And it’s already leading to some of Gaskell’s most sentimental, overtly religiose writing in the novel.

TheWriteStuff · 19/02/2024 13:38

I agree about keeping her hair. In fact, even while cutting it Sally doesn't wonder if she's not acted too hasty.

I don't see the cutting as something designed to punish Ruth. More that she is trying hard to protect the Benson's from anyone doubting Ruth's story. She perhaps seems a bit more representative of working class people and therefore, I trust her judgement of how they will view Ruth a bit more than I trust Mr Benson's - because he seems so idealistic. And his sister is led by him. So I kind of see them both as a bit out of touch.

I also gree with the way Ruth, who originally seemed a little spirited, is becoming more and more passive. I hope she's going to find a littlle fight back in her before we're done.

She is still very young and in a totally new environment as well as a new moral landscape. Hopefully as she settles, she will come out of herself and grow in confidence.

FuzzyCaoraDhubh · 19/02/2024 13:46

Sally also put a wedding ring on Ruth's finger, which Faith hadn't thought of.
They weren't going to fool anybody without Sally's assistance!

Edit: Oh no she didn't! That was Faith, sorry!

ShabanahFazal · 19/02/2024 14:42

TheWriteStuff · 19/02/2024 13:38

I agree about keeping her hair. In fact, even while cutting it Sally doesn't wonder if she's not acted too hasty.

I don't see the cutting as something designed to punish Ruth. More that she is trying hard to protect the Benson's from anyone doubting Ruth's story. She perhaps seems a bit more representative of working class people and therefore, I trust her judgement of how they will view Ruth a bit more than I trust Mr Benson's - because he seems so idealistic. And his sister is led by him. So I kind of see them both as a bit out of touch.

I also gree with the way Ruth, who originally seemed a little spirited, is becoming more and more passive. I hope she's going to find a littlle fight back in her before we're done.

She is still very young and in a totally new environment as well as a new moral landscape. Hopefully as she settles, she will come out of herself and grow in confidence.

Good point about protecting the Benson’s story. I also think that all the women in this society that divides them into either madonnas or whores, she acts decisively in a way that marks a clear difference for others to see between her, a church-going honest woman, and Ruth, the fallen woman. Sally is a proud woman and very conscious of her moral status in an changing society where a self-made man is seen as the chief congregant in her church; note the pride she feels in dressing smartly for it. There may also for the same class and status reasons, be a subtle element of power play in the way she initially treats Ruth, who is after all intruding on a domestic set-up in which Sally has special trusted status as more than just a servant: she’s been surrogate mother to Benson and maybe wants Ruth to realise she can’t suddenly arrive and enjoy adopted daughter status without starting first at the bottom.

TheWriteStuff · 19/02/2024 14:52

FuzzyCaoraDhubh · 19/02/2024 13:46

Sally also put a wedding ring on Ruth's finger, which Faith hadn't thought of.
They weren't going to fool anybody without Sally's assistance!

Edit: Oh no she didn't! That was Faith, sorry!

Edited

Ah - but Faith only thought of the ring because Sally kept trying to see Ruth's left hand. So, it WAS Sally (indirectly) that helped illustrate the flaws in their lies.

ShabanahFazal · 19/02/2024 14:55

When I refered earlier to Gaskell’s worst, overly religiose writing, I was thinking of examples like this, on the birth of the baby, designed to mask her moral squeamishness about having to mention it at all:

The earth was still "hiding her guilty front with innocent snow," when a little baby was laid - yes, we know why she’s using such horribly judgemental symbolism here but it’s still hard to read now in 2024.

Then this this mawkish apostrophe to the baby….
Little child! thy angel was with God, and drew her nearer and nearer to Him, whose face is continually beheld by the angels of little children.

And emphatic references to the baby as some kind of Immaculate Conception (as others have noted, the sex that led to this was skated over…) of a sacred, unearthly being:

her mysterious holy child

Almost a portrait of the Virgin Mary and the baby Jesus, which ignores the mess, fatigue and effort of giving birth to a scrawny, demanding and wailing creature.

FuzzyCaoraDhubh · 19/02/2024 15:04

TheWriteStuff · 19/02/2024 14:52

Ah - but Faith only thought of the ring because Sally kept trying to see Ruth's left hand. So, it WAS Sally (indirectly) that helped illustrate the flaws in their lies.

I knew there was an intelligent thought in there somewhere ;)

Thanks 😄

ShabanahFazal · 19/02/2024 17:11

referred! Apologies for typos. So annoying not to be able to edit! This time I wasn’t even allowed one edit - seems inconsistent?

BishyBarnyBee · 21/02/2024 07:53

Chapter 16
In which Ruth chooses a bedtime tale of two sweethearts over a tale of seven dishes, is told to pull herself together for the sake of her child - and does so.

When Ruth struggles to sleep, Sally ("a rare hand at talking folks to sleep") offers her a choice of stories: a fairy story, a love story, or (Sally's favourite) the story of her proudest culinary achievement, when she conjured seven different courses from a neck of lamb to entertain Miss Faith's sweetheart. We learn in passing that Faith has rejected an offer of marriage because she could never leave Thurston, before moving to the big story of the chapter: Sally's own sweethearts.

Sally thinks she has missed her only chance (the madman John Rawson) and assumes Jeremiah has come to pray. On her knees, she tries to pipeclay the floor behind him, but wherever she goes he is behind her, his chair clasped to his backside like a snail with its shell.

When he spells out his proposal, her first instinct is to laugh, and then he blows his chances telling her she will never get a better offer. "My first thoughts, second thoughts and third thoughts is all one and the same; you've but tempted me once and that was when you spoke of your pig".

Kindhearted Sally worries about Jerry pining away and her heart aches with the sense of what she might have missed. But his hasty marriage 3 weeks later turns him back from tragic hero to a warty middle aged man. She settles for contented singledom but with the satisfaction of being a woman who was asked twice.

Ruth gratefully settles in with the Bensons but is still given to trains of languid and tearful reverie. This both concerns and infuriates Sally and Faith, and Sally give Ruth a forceful piece of her mind. She shares that she was so overcome with guilt after dropping baby Thurstan, she did her work very badly, and had to be told to worry less about the state of her soul and more about the state of the pudding.

Her oration hits home and Ruth throws herself into motherhood, duty and her own education, "learning neither to look backwards nor forwards, but to live faithfully and earnestly in the present".

OP posts:
narniabusiness · 21/02/2024 08:57

You are brilliant at writing these summaries. They are not just useful, I really enjoy reading them.
I did like the story of the marriage proposals, and the pig. Makes you wonder what on earth the 7 dishes made from neck of lamb must have been like. I’m guessing not that great.
On the subject of what did Ruth know about sex, there is a paragraph on page 40 of my copy which addresses this issue in a suitably Victorian way of course. Her mother told her nothing as she died when Ruth was 12. MG says Ruth’s day dreams were not about Romantic love, just that Bellingham seemed kind and she had no one else who was kind to her. She felt slightly uneasy about going for a walk with him but can’t work out why it’s different from going for a walk with anyone else.
There’s no indication that the girls she worked with discussed sexual matters. I suspect they would have been dismissed if they did, given what happens when Ruth was seen with Mr B. So I’m reading it that Ruth had an feeling that going to London with Mr B was wrong but she didn’t know how wrong. Uneasy echos of recent grooming scandals.

BishyBarnyBee · 21/02/2024 09:30

@narniabusiness thank you! This was a long chapter and I had to miss out some enjoyable snippets - love the humour in Sally's stories.

Yes, it's useful to go back to that chapter, I think at the time we talked about grooming.

I'm finding the ongoing references to living in the present really interesting. It's almost like Gaskell is advocating a kind of religious mindfulness - being in the present moment. But when Bellingham and Ruth were in the forest in Wales, Gaskell wrote about a different kind of being in the moment - Ruth was so happy when they were alone and living for the present, but became sad again when they returned to society and she was aware of her real position.

So it's a very specific emphasis on being with God in the present moment, which fits with what we've said about it being a heavily Christian book. Interesting to compare with the current mindfulness trend though.

OP posts:
narniabusiness · 21/02/2024 14:35

An interesting thought about mindfulness @BishyBarnyBee to get through grief. I think you might have mentioned that MG was encouraged to write to help her after the loss of her child.

ShabanahFazal · 21/02/2024 19:04

I absolutely loved this chapter because Sally is such a wonderfully funny, life-affirming character. I really enjoyed the hilarious comedy of her impatient cleaning round the Methodist Jeremiah Dixon whilst he’s praying, followed by his comic proposal to her. I was also amused by the subtler comedy of her almost being tempted by his offer of a wedding pig, despite her disapproval of Dissenters - though she makes an exception of course for her beloved master and mistress, who she conveniently decides aren’t really Dissenters, just Christians (as if they’re not). But ironically in another sense she’s right - they are truly charitable, ‘christian’ in word and deed.

She has the larger-than-life vitality of a Dickens character but the depth of a minor Austen one, as so much of her character complexity is revealed through her near-dramatic monologues. Either way, Gaskell is so good at this kind of psychological subtlety with her characters, that I wonder if she might have made a good playwright? I mean for example the way she builds Sally’s anecdotes to an entertaining climax, and how she rightly tells Dixon with his typically male arrogance where to shove his proposal and storms off, then wonders if she’s been as cruel to him as Barbara Allen in the folk song and has cut off her nose to spite her face, but finally squashes any lingering regret with the flattering thought that she’s had at least one proposal. Interesting comic parallel to Faith Benson, who also only had the one proposal, but Sally is so much more than comic relief. There’s such a rich, rounded and subtle mixture in her story of feistiness, pride, self-romanticisation, secret longing for genuine love and self-aware storytelling skill, and I laughed out loud at her ending her tale with a brilliantly vivid flourish:

“And for many a day I turned sick, when I heard the passing bell, for I thought it were the bell loud-knelling which were to break my heart wi' a sense of what I'd missed in saying 'No' to Jerry, and so killing him with cruelty. But in less than a three week, I heard parish bells a-ringing merrily for a wedding; and in the course of a morning, some one says to me, 'Hark! how the bells is ringing for Jerry Dixon's wedding!' And, all on a sudden, he changed back again from a heart-broken young fellow, like Jemmy Gray, into a stout, middle-aged man, ruddy-complexioned, with a wart on his left cheek like life!" Sally waited for some exclamation at the conclusion of her tale….”

I also loved her because she’s such a refreshing, no-nonsense practical contrast to the traumatised Ruth’s self-absorption at this point, and however harshly, does manage to knock some sense into her with tough love. Best of all, she has real depth and a similar stoic, outward-facing mindset to the Bensons. Hers is a more homespun unreflective wisdom, but spiritually profound in its own way when she urges Ruth to live every moment in the here and now, not dwell on the past or fear the future, by busying herself with activity and performing every mundane task with full concentration (something modern mindfulness also tells us is important for healing - glad you had exactly the same thought @BishyBarnyBee !). This is what makes the Bensons and Sally a spiritually unified household. I found this such a beautiful illustration of their moral groundedness and psychological stability, from Chapter 13 - all of which is critical for Ruth to be able to take the first step on her moral journey to redemption:

“ In the Bensons' house there was the same unconsciousness of individual merit, the same absence of introspection and analysis of motive, as there had been in her mother; but it seemed that their lives were pure and good, not merely from a lovely and beautiful nature, but from some law, the obedience to which was, of itself, harmonious peace, and which governed them almost implicitly, and with as little questioning on their part, as the glorious stars which haste not, rest not, in their eternal obedience. This household had many failings: they were but human, and, with all their loving desire to bring their lives into harmony with the will of God, they often erred and fell short; but, somehow, the very errors and faults of one individual served to call out higher excellences in another, and so they reacted upon each other, and the result of short discords was exceeding harmony and peace. But they had themselves no idea of the real state of things; they did not trouble themselves with marking their progress by self-examination; if Mr Benson did sometimes, in hours of sick incapacity for exertion, turn inwards, it was to cry aloud with almost morbid despair, "God be merciful to me a sinner!" But he strove to leave his life in the hands of God, and to forget himself.”

Please excuse typos / mistakes etc. I still can’t recover my full Kindle notes and can’t remember everything exactly- Ruth is now two completely different novels ago!

FuzzyCaoraDhubh · 21/02/2024 19:24

I was thinking as I was reading ShabanahFazal's post that the scene of Sally's proposal would have looked brilliant on stage.

Buttalapasta · 21/02/2024 19:32

I think Gaskell's comic timing is perfect. This line actually made me laugh:

You're not the first chap as I've had down on his knees afore me, axing me to marry him (you see I were thinking of John Rawson, only I thought there were no need to say he were on all fours—it were truth he were on his knees, you know)
😂
I agree it's very visual. You can just imagine him scooting around on the chair and Sally claypiping his coat tails that are dragging on the floor. It's also a clever way of commenting on society's expectations of women. Rather than marry for security, Sally prefers her freedom! Good for her!

(As an aside, I love hearing her use thou - my great-grandfather used to call me thou. It gives me such a warm feeling).