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New Year, New Fallen Woman: Elizabeth Gaskell's Ruth Readalong

586 replies

BishyBarnyBee · 28/12/2023 07:42

Following the very successful Madame Bovary readalong, we have decided to explore another woman who refused to be bound by contemporary mores.
So shocking at the time, two of Gaskell's friends burnt their copies.

"Elizabeth Gaskell's Ruth (1853) was the first mainstream novel to make a fallen woman its eponymous heroine. It is a remarkable story of love, of the sanctuary and tyranny of the family, and of the consequences of lies and deception, one that lays bare Victorian hypocrisy and sexual double-standards. Shocking to contemporary readers, its radical utopian vision of a pure woman faithfully presented predates Hardy's Tess by nearly forty years."

We will aim for two chapters a week - a weekend chapter and a mid week chapter. If I have time, I'll try and do a ChatGPT chapter summary, but anyone else is welcome to jump in if I haven't got there first.

We start 1st Jan, so if you are up for a bit of Victorian passion, guilt, regret and redemption, sign up here!

OP posts:
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BishyBarnyBee · 12/02/2024 07:44

Only slightly tangential:

Posy Simmons won the Grand Prix at this year's Angoulême International Comics Festival.

Her work is very popular in France, partly because of her graphic novel Gemma Bovery, a satire of Madame Bovary that applies her forensic analysis of the British middle classes to the life of an English expat in France.

The press coverage made me find a second hand copy. It's not massively about Madame Bovary and is slightly dated, but it is gently amusing and very well drawn, obviously.

If anyone from the Madame Bovary thread is on here and interested, I'm happy to post it on, I won't read it again.

New Year, New Fallen Woman: Elizabeth Gaskell's Ruth Readalong
OP posts:
ShabanahFazal · 12/02/2024 15:21

Buttalapasta · 11/02/2024 20:01

@ShabanahFazal Yes, it was The Woodlanders I was thinking of, not Return of the Native. Geting my Hardy novels mixed up!

Oh, I caught up very quickly and didn’t notice you’d already alluded to it above!
Anyway, if you’re a Hardy fan like me, you’ll probably also know this wondrously intriguing introduction to Sophy, the central character in his short story ‘The Son’s Veto’, a devastating, richly ironic look at patriarchy, class and the country v city divide. He frequently revealed his fascination with women’s hair (inspired by his first wife Emma’s lustrous tresses), but I’m not sure he ever bettered this, with its clever foreshadowing, symbolism and subtle political critique:

“The Son's Veto

To the eyes of a man viewing it from behind, the nut-brown hair was a wonder and a mystery. Under the black beaver hat, surmounted by its tuft of black feathers, the long locks, braided and twisted and coiled like the rushes of a basket, composed a rare, if somewhat barbaric, example of ingenious art. One could understand such weavings and coilings being wrought to last intact for a year, or even a calendar month; but that they should be all demolished regularly at bedtime, after a single day of permanence, seemed a reckless waste of successful fabrication.
And she had done it all herself, poor thing. She had no maid, and it was almost the only accomplishment she could boast of. Hence the unstinted pains.”

Buttalapasta · 12/02/2024 16:34

@ShabanahFazal I am a Hardy fan but I've never seen that before - interesting!

BishyBarnyBee · 15/02/2024 08:41

Chapter 14
In which Sally softens, we observe Sunday with the Bensons, and Ruth is introduced to Thurstan's congregation including the formidable Mr Bradshaw.

Miss Benson suspects that Sally suspects.

Which might be a classic "No Shit Sherlock" moment if such a thing were possible 40 years before Conan Doyle invented him.

Sally's "widow be farred" comment shows she is way beyond "suspects" and the Bensons tell her the truth. Sally plays dumb and enjoys making them squirm by forcing them to spell out the situation in detail. She chides Thurston for his softness but Ruth's dignifed submission to the shearing has softened her - and she promises to keep the secret.

The ladies Bradshaw visit and Ruth withdraws into the inner world of the past while Miss Benson gets quite carried away describing the detail of Ruth's doomed marriage to her ill-fated surgeon. Thurston reproves her for the unnecessary detail, reminding her that they are only lying to prevent a greater evil.

The Benson's Sunday begins with the patter of tiny feet as children troop in to Sunday school, then adjourns to the plain and simple chapel. The congregation is dominated by the towering figure of the imposing Bradshaw and Faith is relieved he cannot see the intensity of Ruth's sincere but dramatic prostrate prayer for forgiveness. After the service, Bradshaw indicates that both the Benson's charity and Ruth's demure appearance meet his approval.

OP posts:
FuzzyCaoraDhubh · 15/02/2024 14:43

Thank you for the summary Bishy!
I found the description of the Dissenters' church interesting, not knowing anything about this religious movement at all, if that's the correct thing to say.

Early on we encounter the local Bigwig, Mr. Bradshaw. Everyone seems to quake in their boots around him. I think he enjoys lording it over everyone and is generally an annoying man. Does every congregation have a Mr. Bradshaw, I wonder?!

I enjoyed Faith's embellishment of Sally's back story. She enjoyed herself giving it colour and credence in spite of Thurston's admonishment. I liked it when she could relax and play around a bit. It's human nature to not always be so strict and regimental about things. Sally and Faith are well-rounded characters in that respect.

Midnightstar76 · 15/02/2024 18:33

Yes thank you Bishy. Okay so in all honesty this is the first chapter I was beginning to find it a struggle to read. It was the final part that was the icing on the cake for me. I think it’s probably because my own mind is distracted and was finding it hard to focus. Still though I am looking forward to reading the rest it was just this chapter. I think I will re- read it again at the weekend where I can concentrate more.

FuzzyCaoraDhubh · 15/02/2024 18:36

That should be Ruth's story!

ShabanahFazal · 15/02/2024 18:51

Forgive me for going back to Chapter 11. I meant to write this the other day but ran out of time, had to remind myself of my notes at the time, and then had huge technical problems with my Kindle app that wiped all my notes for the whole book!! So this is from dimmer memory, having since read two other books ….

I found this chapter fascinating and totally absorbing. Without knowing at this point what was coming next, it felt immediately to me like it would turn out to be a critical one, the moral crux of the novel - and having got to the end of the novel now, I haven’t changed my mind. The Bensons epitomise slowly reasoned and courageous compassion considering the minister’s role and the community they’re bringing Ruth into. I absolutely loved their brother-sister dynamic, especially the warm, affectionate friction between them, and the way they complement each other. I particularly enjoyed the gentle humour here:

"That's all very fine, and I dare say very true," said Miss Benson, a little chagrined. "But 'a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush;' and I would rather have had one good, hearty 'Thank you,' now, for all I have been planning to do for her, than the grand effects you promise me in the 'sweep of eternity.' Don't be grave and sorrowful, Thurstan, or I'll go out of the room. I can stand Sally's scoldings, but I can't bear your look of quiet depression whenever I am a little hasty or impatient. I had rather you would give me a good box on the ear." "And I would often rather you would speak, if ever so hastily, instead of whistling. So, if I box your ears when I am vexed with you, will you promise to scold me when you are put out of the way, instead of whistling?" "Very well! that's a bargain. You box, and I scold.

Ultimately, as Mr Benson rightly states, they are often “both right“: she’s more human, down-to-earth and better tuned in to the prejudices of their community, whereas he’s more far-thinking, with the radical courage to actually do his spiritual job by putting God’s judgement above the opinions of men. And the result is, they make the best decisions for Ruth. Ironically, despite his sister’s first name, it’s not surprising he’s the one that shows much more faith in the plan to redeem her through her innocent baby.

A couple of details I liked about Gaskell’s narration and attitude to him here at the start of the chapter in her narrative method:

You have now seen the note which was delivered into Mr Benson's hands….

but then she returns to the first person she’s used before. She makes an amusingly ironic comment when Faith tells him Ruth is pregnant, but he fails to compute it, displaying a touching male innocence:

I said, "all things possible;" I made a mistake”.

There was also a detail about Faith that tickled me. She’s so resolutely down-to-earth and anti-romantic, she even dislikes mountains (in contrast to her poetry-loving brother and Ruth, of course). In fact, so much that they ‘oppress’ her and she can’t even sleep when thinking of them. I found it subtly humorous because it exaggerates the contrast between the siblings, but mainly because it reminded me of a minor Jane Austen character who says something like she can’t abide mountains, and I always found that comical - whether intended or not (Lizzie Bennett loves them, being more spirited and natural). Help me out anyone who can remember the exact character and comment?

Buttalapasta · 18/02/2024 07:03

I'm not sure what chapter we're on but I LOVED chapter 16. I need a Sally in my life. I won't say anything more for the moment as I'm not sure where we are meant to be up to.

FuzzyCaoraDhubh · 18/02/2024 10:13

We're on chapter 15 today.

'The earth was still "hiding her guilty front with innocent snow," when a little baby was laid by the side of the pale white mother. It was a boy (...)'

I also loved Sally's story in chapter 16.
A much-needed bit of humour.

Piggywaspushed · 18/02/2024 10:38

Well, I shall look forward to Chap 16 then as I must say I am, at present, a bit piety-ed out.

Midnightstar76 · 18/02/2024 15:44

Well what I found about chapter fifteen is how baffled I was that it jumped to the next paragraph and there she had had baby. No talk of her labour just she has had her baby.
This piece of writing reminded me of all those sleepless restless nights I had and how I couldn’t rest due to the excitement of being a new mum and wanting, needing to be there.

she opened them again with a start, for sleep seemed to be an enemy stealing from her the consciousness of being a mother. That one thought excluded all remembrance and all anticipation, in those first hours of delight.”

I also discovered a new word for me quixotic, what a great sounding word.

I am glad that Ruth was able to keep busy during her time leading up to labour making use of her seamstress skills. I am beginning to get a little annoyed that Ruth was moping around crying so much and can understand Miss Benson’s irritations. Sally however really shows a compassionate side on this note. Intrigued for the next chapter, chapter 16 and more of Sally

narniabusiness · 18/02/2024 17:02

I found your thread a couple of weeks ago quite by accident. I thought your choice of book sounded very interesting so I got a copy and I’ve just read chapter 15 so thought I’d post.
I don’t have anything clever to say but I’ve enjoyed reading your comments very much. The thing that intrigued me was Sally cutting Ruth’s hair. I have never heard of a widow having to cut her hair before. and I thought I’d read a lot of 19th century fiction. It just sounds so sad at a time when long hair was so important and her grief so raw. I wonder whether it wasn’t the custom among the upper classes. I’m going to have to try to find out more.

JamesGiantPledge1 · 18/02/2024 17:20

I have read up to today’s chapter. I have to admit I am struggling to emotionally engage with the characters. I feel quite detached and not invested in the situation as I was with Anna or Tess. I am not sure w

JamesGiantPledge1 · 18/02/2024 17:23

Why.

I did enjoy the hint of tension around the difficulties of 3 women living in a small space.

sorry posted too soon

Piggywaspushed · 18/02/2024 17:50

I ma guessing the phrase widow's peak must derive from ideas about widow's hair? I thought they scraped it all back - but cutting seems more extreme. It felt in the book a bit like slut shaming but Sally doesn't present it as such. More that your purpose as a beauty is over. Troubling ideas to grapple.

cassandre · 18/02/2024 18:29

Maybe as I read on, I'll feel more love for Sally, but at the moment I can't forgive her for cutting Ruth's hair. It does seem like an act meant to shame her and put her in her place. And I'm miffed by Ruth's dignified submission to the hair cutting as well. I would rather she told Sally to fuck off. 😳

And I agree with your remark, Piggy, about being piety-ed out.

That said, it's certainly an interesting glimpse into cultural norms. It's just all the negative judgment of pregnancy out of wedlock that I find difficult to endure. And Ruth's participation in the self-flagellation.

However, today's chapter does have a go at the local lord-of-the-manor type Mr Bradshaw and his self-aggrandising acts of piety! I'm on board with that.

cassandre · 18/02/2024 18:33

And yeah, the birth happened so fast, with the jump to the baby being placed next to the 'pale white mother', that I first thought both mother and baby were dead! But soon realised that wasn't the correct interpretation.

FuzzyCaoraDhubh · 18/02/2024 18:39

I found it hard to read that it took Faith a while before she looked at the baby. It seems very harsh!

narniabusiness · 18/02/2024 18:39

cassandre · 18/02/2024 18:29

Maybe as I read on, I'll feel more love for Sally, but at the moment I can't forgive her for cutting Ruth's hair. It does seem like an act meant to shame her and put her in her place. And I'm miffed by Ruth's dignified submission to the hair cutting as well. I would rather she told Sally to fuck off. 😳

And I agree with your remark, Piggy, about being piety-ed out.

That said, it's certainly an interesting glimpse into cultural norms. It's just all the negative judgment of pregnancy out of wedlock that I find difficult to endure. And Ruth's participation in the self-flagellation.

However, today's chapter does have a go at the local lord-of-the-manor type Mr Bradshaw and his self-aggrandising acts of piety! I'm on board with that.

I really just wanted to quote your 3rd paragraph but I wasn’t sure how to.
The point about the negative judgment of pregnancy out of wedlock. I think this is what MG is asking us to question. Why is Ruth so harshly judged? Is it really a Christian thing to do? If Ruth is repentant then that should be enough to redeem her in the eyes of God, so why isn’t it enough for society at large?

narniabusiness · 18/02/2024 18:42

This attitude to unmarried mothers after all persisted into the second half of the 20th century, so unfortunately MG didn’t manage to change attitudes. But at least the treatment of the children and their ostracism reduced, although they may be limited in who they could marry.

narniabusiness · 18/02/2024 18:43

Piggywaspushed · 18/02/2024 17:50

I ma guessing the phrase widow's peak must derive from ideas about widow's hair? I thought they scraped it all back - but cutting seems more extreme. It felt in the book a bit like slut shaming but Sally doesn't present it as such. More that your purpose as a beauty is over. Troubling ideas to grapple.

Widows peak refers to hair receding at the temples as one ages. I fact I’m very aware of.

cassandre · 18/02/2024 21:58

@narniabusiness , absolutely, I take your point! Gaskell is certainly trying to make readers see the narrowmindedness and hypocrisy of the people who judge Ruth. And for her time, that's radical.

At the same time, it irks me that Ruth has to feel repentant and humble at all. She is not to blame whatsoever. Having sex and getting pregnant aren't sins. I'm reminded a bit of modern-day evangelical Christianity and its 'hate the sin but love the sinner' mantra (when it comes to gay love, for example). While loving sinners is better than hating them, it would be more enlightened to do away with the concept of sexual sin altogether... or reserve the notion of sin for men who groom young women and dump them!

But yeah, I'm fully aware that when I say that, I'm thinking from today's perspective, and Gaskell isn't writing for me, she's writing for an audience of 1853.

It occurs to me that Gaskell skipping the scene of labour and birth is a bit like her skipping any mention of Ruth having sex. Women's bodies are clearly a delicate topic.

cassandre · 18/02/2024 22:11

In other words, I think the characters in the novel fall into two categories: people who believe Ruth has done wrong and have no compassion for her, and people who believe she has done wrong and DO have compassion for her. And the latter are the true Christians from Gaskell's point of view. But everyone still believes to at least some extent that Ruth has done wrong, including Ruth herself.

I get the impression that Ruth is meant to be redeemed through motherhood: her self-sacrificial embrace of the role of mother will enable her to cross to the other side of the virgin/whore divide, and become Mary instead of Eve.

I just hate the penitential aspect of it all, like the fact that she chooses to wear clothes made out of the coarsest possible cloth.

She's at the opposite end of the spectrum to Emma Bovary: Emma is very self-centred, and Ruth is very self-effacing. It would be nice to see a heroine who's a bit more in the middle 😀