Dorothy Dunnett - why has it taken me so long?

[Sausagenbacon]

Now and again someone has recommended DD to me, and I've always given up on them, finding them too dense. But, for some reason, the Niccolo series has 'clicked' for me. I'm half-way through the 5th one.
I just can't believe how good they are, and amazing female characters are found in them.
I'm already worried about finishing the last one. Are the Lymond books as good?

Haha, that’s what I’ve been listening to for the past month! I went from DD, back into some more georgette heyer, then a few Mary Renault, and then Shardlake. Had an in-depth Hornblower session a year or so ago. DD is a class above but it’s all great.

DD is a class above but it’s all great.

I think Georgette Heyer is just as good as DD, within her own field. She was just as scrupulous about research; The Spanish Bride and An Infamous Army are as good accounts of the Peninsular and Waterloo campaigns as you can get. And she wrote wonderful supporting characters.

(I read Lymond first, at an age to be really carried away by the romance. I had to wait for Checkmate to be published, and then I read it in a day.)

I adore Dorothy Dunnett. I like Lymond better. I am intrigued that she knew what her fandom was predicting with Niccolo. Was she really reading along on Marzipan and Kisses (the major email list) because we went to some wild and woolly places with Niccolo. I didn't mind the big bad in Gemini but equally I don't remember anyone picking the big bad before Gemini was published.

I can’t believe nobody’s mentioned Sybilla or Kate & Philippa Somerville yet. My favourite characters in the Lymond series.

The older I get the less I like Sybilla. Adore Kate and Philippa. 'My heart in a blackberry pie"

Which should I read first?

Love Georgette Heyer and Mary Stewart so I imagine this is up my street.

Really? Actually I have an idea of why but I won’t ask because spoilers.

You’re totally right - I think I meant in terms of scope and reach of the series - the depth and breadth of DD 10 books immersive world and character evolution. But GH is just as meticulous and superbly crafted in a different genre type. I’d also add Regency Buck as a great historical example (though they all are really) - loads of well known characters etc all interwoven. I’ve got Spanish Bride lined up next. I’ve only got a few unread now, and am saving them, but haven’t ventured into the full on mystery ones yet.

Philippa is glorious. As is Kate. Love them both.

Yes I won't go into it but I am not sure I think she was right in what she did.

A poster suggested upthread that we do a read along. I'm not sure how it works but it sounds good to me (either series). Is anyone else interested?

I've been planning a reread of Lymond and would probably be in.

Anyone starting Lymond--keep going until you meet the pig.

My goodness I've loved these books for so so many years. I remember getting so into the Lymond books that I still be reading at 3am when I needed to get to sleep to go to work the next morning. I also loved King Hereafter. I read the Niccolo books but preferred the other books.

They can be challenging to read (and sadly I seem to have lost the knack of focussed reading I used to have) but I rebought the Lymond series and King Hereafter to read again during first lockdown. I really wish I could watch them as film, in the same way I was utterly glued to "The Tudors" on TV. 🌹

There was a rumour that there was to be a Lymond TV series before covid. It would either be fabulous (Lymond in Russia!) or terrible. I'm not sure how it could be filmed although I guess the major character issue could be done with CGI.

I like the Johnson Johnson books, they are a good comfort read. I've collected them all from opshops over the years.

I like the Johnson Johnson books, they are a good comfort read. I've collected them all from opshops over the years.

I'll take a look at those. 🌹

They are very silly and chronologically are all over the place. JJ is younger than he should be in some books and older in others. Nobody has figured out where the dead wife fits in timewise (a bit of a spoiler but it spoils nothing really).

I’d love there to be a good version, but there’s a lot of “characters in disguise” going on through DD books, and I strongly suspect it’d be a lot less convincing on screen. It’s one of the most “suspend disbelief” aspects of DD books for me. But then it could be great! I’ve found a better knowledge of the worlds the books illuminate has really increased my enjoyment of other things set in those time periods or places.

Yeah the books do require a certain degree of suspended disbelief. When I found out how old Lymond is supposed to be in Game of Kings... he'd been a very busy boyo.

My world has just been shaken! I was introduced to Lymond 40 years ago by my morher( she was such a fan girl!) and I have just downloaded an audiobook. Only to discover that the narrator pronounces him as Francis of Lye- mond. Not as my dear departed mother did-Francis of Lim-mond. Not sure what to do with this information.....

Had to join the thread but can’t read much of it as I am trying to avoid spoilers(have just seen one!). Discovered and devoured the Lymond books a few years ago, and have almost completed the first Niccolo book - thought I might just buy the one but of course that can’t happen now, am too far in!

Chronologically, the Niccolo books even though published second. But if you can get through the hectic style of the first Lymond book, you'll be hooked and then you can come to Niccolo second, then reread Lymond to get the references then do Niccolo to make sure, then reread Lymond because, frankly, best books in the world, but then you have to just check out Niccolo again...

And so my DD reading life has gone.

CurlewKate - I'm afraid it is indeed Lye-mond, rather like bygone is pronounced bye-gone. I know someone else who had the same problem and was horrified when she heard DD pronounce it (wrong, as far as she was concerned!).

On other matters, Sybilla drives me mad and I love Kate with a passion. I much prefer the women in Lymond to people like the Naxettes in Niccolo. Who cares about all those princesses of Naxos, influential as I know they are?

Going back upthread a bit - the same company who made Poldark - Mammoth Screen - had an option to make GoKs then go on from there, and I know that treatments were being done on the basis of a book a series of 6/8 eps. I suspect that unless they could get a big player in such as Netflix, it's too expensive to film so it has been quietly shelved, but it might have a resurgence.

Fixes @mimbleandlittlemy with her hardest hard stare. How do you KNOW it's Lye-mond, huh??

I suspect that unless they could get a big player in such as Netflix, it's too expensive to film so it has been quietly shelved, but it might have a resurgence.

I think it's probably unfilmable. Too many characters, too many locations, too much historical background to be explained, to much that would need to be left out. Look at the criticism the Harry Potter films have attracted, and they were much slighter books in comparison - most of the action takes place in or aroud Hogwarts, for example, compared to how far Lymond roamed.

Cowering from Hard Stare. Well… I was once in a long lecture by the author - but what did she know, eh? Go with your Mum especially as she’s a proper fan girl.