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War and Peace readalong thread 2022 - thread 3

672 replies

VikingNorthUtsire · 19/07/2022 06:58

Welcome to the third thread. Please see the OP in threads 1 or 2 for the full info.on the readalong, links to different editions and translations, blog posts, etc.

I think most of us are established now so for this post I'll just re-shsre the reading schedule

Different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

OP posts:
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13
SanFranBear · 04/10/2022 06:58

Oh, poor little Nikolay...

And I'm not sure I fully understand what is happening either Andrey.. had he jisy resigned himself to death as it sounds like, medically, he'd turned a corner? Or he hadn't and its now just hit him?

And I think I've got used to authors doing the annoying accent thing as, even though I'm reading Briggs, I've not noticed it in a while (not since some of the war sections where an Austrians speech was being totally bastardised??) I really don't like it though so am surprised it's not standing out to me anymore...?

Tarahumara · 04/10/2022 07:06

Oh no Sad

Tarahumara · 04/10/2022 07:12

I think that, in those days of less medical knowledge, you wouldn't always know exactly why someone had died. But the person themselves might have a sense that death was around the corner (without really understanding the medical reasons for it). I assume it's sepsis or similar?

IsFuzzyBeagMise · 04/10/2022 07:39

Agreed. I was thinking of sepsis too. I'm surprised Andrei lasted this long with such severe injuries, really.

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 04/10/2022 23:26

05/10/22
Volume 4, Part 1, Chapter 16

•	OK, now we're going to back up and see what the heck happened to Andrei.

•	A few days before Marya arrived, everything was fine. Andrei was happy to be near Natasha, and there was love here, love there, love everywhere.

•	All this love made him fight for his life and try to overpower the overwhelming feeling of wanting to sink into the universal love he was feeling in the medic tent – which apparently is the feeling of wanting to die.

•	One night, though, after some nice love talk with Natasha, Andrei has a weird dream. He’s fighting against a door; it keeps trying to open and he’s trying to keep it closed. The more he struggles, the harder it is. And then he realizes that death is behind the door. He lets the door open and dies.

•	Well, in his dream he dies. In real life he wakes up and realizes that he needs to just let go and die, since he’s already half-dead anyway.

•	Or something. Seriously, guys, it’s so convoluted. But you know, for some reason Andrei wants to die.

•	From that night on, Andrei slowly but steadily slips away from life and those who are living around him.

•	His final hours are spent with Natasha and Marya by his side. They are peaceful and quiet.

•	After his death, his body is laid out and everyone cries for him in his or her own way.

•	For Pete’s sake. This novel is way depressing all of a sudden. Maybe it’s time for another stress-relief break. Go outside with a frisbee or something. Yikes.
SanFranBear · 05/10/2022 14:33

Oh no 😥

IsFuzzyBeagMise · 05/10/2022 19:15

I know we were prepared for it, but, aw...Andrei 😓

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 06/10/2022 00:58

06/10/22

Volume 4, Part 2, Chapter 1

1812
• Again we start off with a big, zoomed-out view of what actually happened after the battle of Borodino, what the historians say happened, and Tolstoy’s ideas about the whole great-man style of historical writing.

•	Again, those ideas are that the great-man-directing-events version of history is a lot of hooey. Instead, it’s obvious to Tolstoy that there are an infinite number of things that cause events to happen. So many that we can’t even wrap our heads around it.
•	
•	After the battle of Borodino and the burning of Moscow, the Russian army retreated and then moved to the south to get to the supply-rich cities there. This is viewed as a totally brilliant strategy by historians, since it blocked the French from getting resupplied. But for Tolstoy, it was just the most obvious “duh” kind of move, undeserving of praise. After all, if you’ve got an army that needs supplies, where else are you going to go?

•	By tacking south instead of straight east, the Russian army actually managed to somehow lose the French, who were supposed to be marching after it. For Tolstoy, this is pretty much pure luck, more attributable to French incompetence than Russian achievement. So stop patting yourselves on the back about it, he says.

•	In any case, the move only seems clever in hindsight. Any number of things could have happened instead of what actually did happen. What if the French hadn’t lost the Russian army? What if Napoleon had decided to attack Petersburg? It’s all just blind luck when you think about it that way.
SanFranBear · 06/10/2022 18:25

Feel like this has been done to death a little, Mr Tolstoy... we get it - not one man, not one decision, lots of luck involved - let's get back to the people, please!

Tarahumara · 06/10/2022 18:30

Yes SanFran I was thinking the same!

IsFuzzyBeagMise · 06/10/2022 18:45

It's a recurring theme for sure...
Just in case you missed it first and second time round!

CornishLizard · 06/10/2022 18:59

Forgot to check in yesterday - I fell behind for a bit in this section owing to Robert Galbraith but caught up. Was glad to return from battlefields to drawing rooms and even the sick bed this section.

Id assumed Helène was somehow immune to unwanted pregnancy so her demise came as a bit of a plot twist.

Poor Sonya, even though I’m not a huge Nicholas fan.

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 07/10/2022 00:30

07/10/22

Volume 4, Part 2, Chapter 2

•	You’ve got to give it to Kutuzov. Not that he planned the strategy or anything like that, but he did have the bigger vision that the French army was hopelessly wounded. And he had the patience to just let the chips fall where they may instead of doing anything rash.

•	Tolstoy compares him to a good hunter who knows when his prey is badly wounded and just waits for it to die.

•	Napoleon, meanwhile, writes Kutuzov a letter asking for a meeting to start wrapping things up. It’s hard to tell, but we think he means that the Russians should surrender.

•	Kutuzov is all, talk to the hand.

•	Sure enough, over the course of the next month the Russian army slowly gains men and strength while the French army loses them...which is just when the Russian army starts itching for a fight.
SanFranBear · 07/10/2022 07:22

Schmoop has a great turn of phrase...

Kutuzov is all, talk to the hand.

😆

IsFuzzyBeagMise · 07/10/2022 07:36

SanFranBear · 07/10/2022 07:22

Schmoop has a great turn of phrase...

Kutuzov is all, talk to the hand.

😆

Yes 😂

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 08/10/2022 00:58

08/10/22

Volume 4, Part 2, Chapter 3

•	Lots of new guys get appointed to high positions in the Russian army. Mostly there’s just in-fighting and politics and general backstabbiness. Which is fine, according to Tolstoy, since none of these men have anything to do with anything anyway.

•	Meanwhile, Emperor Alexander writes Kutuzov a letter asking why the army isn't attacking the French. He's a little grumpy.

•	But by the time this letter arrives, there’s already been a battle between the two armies – mostly because Kutuzov can’t hold anyone off anymore.

•	Basically, a Russian soldier who’s out on patrol at Tarutino just happens to run into the left flank of General Murat’s forces. He comes back, the story gets up to the highest ranks, and from then on it’s a foregone conclusion that they'll fight.
SanFranBear · 08/10/2022 09:51

I was a bit 🙁 when Bagration was just dismissed in the text as 'who'd died'.. I mean, I know we already knew that but he was such a major figure in the first part of the war and so well respected, it seemed a bit, I don't know, throwaway - like he was just another soldier.

Not sure why I feel so protective of him - it's ridiculous - but he deserves better than that!

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 09/10/2022 01:17

09/10/22

Volume 4, Part 2, Chapter 4

•	The attack is all set for October 5. On the 4th everyone is getting ready.

•	One messenger is sent to find General Ermolov to give him the orders. The messenger can’t find him anywhere. When he finally does, Ermolov is mad. Turns out, he disappeared on purpose in order to somehow make some other top commander look bad. It’s hard to know exactly how, but the basic point is that these guys who are supposed to be leaders are just having petty slap flights among themselves.
IsFuzzyBeagMise · 09/10/2022 10:31

SanFranBear · 08/10/2022 09:51

I was a bit 🙁 when Bagration was just dismissed in the text as 'who'd died'.. I mean, I know we already knew that but he was such a major figure in the first part of the war and so well respected, it seemed a bit, I don't know, throwaway - like he was just another soldier.

Not sure why I feel so protective of him - it's ridiculous - but he deserves better than that!

Yes! I agree. Bagration featured prominently in the early part of the book.
He deserved more than a dismissive relative clause!

I'm feeling a bit jaded at the moment with the war tactics. More focus on the characters please!

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 10/10/2022 00:01

10/10/22

Volume 4, Part 2, Chapter 5

• It’s October 5. Battle day. Kutuzov gets up, prays for victory, and goes outside.

•	He sees...nothing at all. Nothing has been prepared, no one is marching anywhere, soldiers are just hanging out.

•	Kutuzov loses it and screams at everyone.

•	The generals gather, apologize, and say that they’ll just try to do the attack the next day. Mulligan, we guess.
SanFranBear · 10/10/2022 10:02

I reckon they were hungover after the ball... I mean, who throws a ball in the middle of active service - madness!

Sadik · 10/10/2022 20:24

I know - Napoleon's opponents seem to have made a habit of it, thinking of the Duchess of Richmond's ball the night before Waterloo...

ChannelLightVessel · 10/10/2022 22:26

Work hard, play hard?

DesdamonasHandkerchief · 11/10/2022 00:29

11/10/22

Volume 4, Part 2, Chapter 6

•	Do-over.

•	The next day, the orders for the battle are being followed...sort of. There are all kinds of specific troop movements that are supposed to happen, but of course, when you’re dealing with thousands of men, some get where they’re supposed to, some don’t, and some get to someplace they think is right when it’s actually not. And before cell phones, how on earth is anyone supposed to know if the other columns of soldiers are out of place or whatever? It’s hard.

•	One detachment actually gets to the right place. There they find a French deserter who says he knows where Murat is staying, and if they send him with a hundred soldiers, they can capture Murat.

•	The Russians believe him, send the men, immediately realize that the French guy was probably lying, and call the men back.

•	Which really is too bad because apparently they totally could have gotten Murat.

•	Instead, they attack full force but stop as soon as they get to the French camp. Instead of pursuing the French army, the Russian soldiers just start looting all the stuff the French brought with them from Moscow.
DesdamonasHandkerchief · 12/10/2022 00:37

12/10/22

Volume 4, Part 2, Chapter 7

•	The battle at Tarutino is a huge mess. No one goes where they are supposed to, there is no strategy, it’s just a dumb free-for-all. But, Tolstoy points out, that’s pretty much how all battles go.

•	In any case, it doesn’t really matter. Even though none of the goals that were set out for this battle were achieved, the bigger picture shifted a lot. This battle is the first push to rattle the French army and set it on the run.