War and Peace readalong thread 2022 - thread 3

[VikingNorthUtsire]

Welcome to the third thread. Please see the OP in threads 1 or 2 for the full info.on the readalong, links to different editions and translations, blog posts, etc.

I think most of us are established now so for this post I'll just re-shsre the reading schedule

Different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

Let me consult my handy table of Kindred and Affinity....well, it looks like they can marry in England but I think that would be one plot twist too far!

Excellent rifling 😅

28/09/22
Volume 4, Part 1, Chapter 9

•	Back to Pierre, who’s being held under arrest. As the guards change shifts, he’s piled in with the rest of the prisoners, dregs of society who mock him because they immediately recognize him as an aristocrat.

•	He’s taken in for questioning, but it’s immediately clear that this is just for show. Every time he gives an answer that doesn’t fit into the story they want him to tell, they just ignore him and shut him up.

•	He refuses to tell them his name, but even so, they clearly will find him guilty of being an arsonist.

•	Pierre spends another four days under guard waiting for a decision from the marshal, whoever that might be.

Pierre has got to be saved... not sure what the penalty for arson is but pretty steep, I would think!

I'm thinking maybe the fires will get worse and the prisoners will have to be released as there's nowhere to hold them.

I hope so. Poor Pierre. It's looking grim for him.

29/09/22
Volume 4, Part 1, Chapter 10

•	Finally, on September 8, Pierre and the rest of the prisoners are hustled off to see the 

•	On the way, Pierre sees the devastation of the totally destroyed, burned-down city. It’s horrible.

•	In a mansion where Pierre used to go to parties, he is now brought before...Davout, the French general.

•	He’s immediately totally terrified, because Davout is known as a vicious guy.

•	Pierre answers his questions, tells him who he is, and explains what he was doing near the fire. He also throws in the name of the French officer whose life he saved from Makar as some proof of his identity.

•	For a second, Pierre and Davout lock eyes and establish a deep human connection. There’s some hope for Pierre at this point, but suddenly a messenger comes in, and Davout stops thinking about him.

•	Davout doesn’t seem to make a decision. He calls for Pierre to be taken away and is immediately distracted by other business.

•	Pierre realizes that he’s been sentenced to death.

One of those days when I had to read on to the next chapter!

What a cliffhanger! Brilliant ending there.

Bonus points for anyone who didn't read on a chapter!

😂too tempting!!

30/09/22
Volume 4, Part 1, Chapter 11

•	OK, this chapter is disturbing, so Shmoop is recommending some stress-relieving activity right afterward. Or maybe even in the middle. Take a walk. Do a little yoga. Trust us, you’ll need it.

•	Here we go. All the Russian prisoners, including Pierre, are taken from the mansion into a field. There’s a post in the ground, and behind the post a big hole has been dug. (Get it? They’re going to be tied to the post, shot, then dumped in the hole.)

•	The prisoners are lined up. Pierre is number 6.

•	The soldiers decide to shoot them in pairs.

•	Men are led to the post like animals, not really understanding that their lives are about to end.

•	Soldiers shoot the prisoners, cut them down, then dump them into the pit. Each soldier is more horrified than the next at what’s happening.

•	This is clearly murder.

•	The soldiers are shaking and pale as they keep going. One of them can no longer stand, he is so overcome with emotion.

•	The fifth man is taken away and shot. Pierre doesn’t realize that this means that he has been spared and is just there to watch. He is catatonic with fear and horror.

Horrible chapter, just awful! Pierre had a very lucky escape indeed but blooming heck, talk about life-changing! I hadn't read ahead (gold star for me) but desperately wanted to last night, to put this one behind me.

I find it fascinating that when they talk about Napoleonic soldiers, they're not just French - they're Spanish and German and from all over Europe. Was that because Napoleon conquered them so they just threw their lot in with him or was it because Russia was seen as such a big threat to Europe? Perhaps a combo of the two... they seem pretty dedicated to his cause as well which is surprising given he's not the 'leader' of their country! Although a lot of Russians were expressing their adoration for him in the early book so perhaps it was the appeal of being led by him as well?

That was absolutely grim and harrowing to read. Brilliantly written. It's a painful reminder too of the atrocities that have occurred on Ukrainian soil since February.

Yes. I'm always surprised too when I realise that the Napoleonic army didn't only consist of French soldiers. I have no explanation for it, although your ideas sound plausible SanFran.

01/10/22
Volume 4, Part 1, Chapter 12

•	Pierre and the rest of the spared men are taken away to a prisoner-of-war barracks.

•	There, he realizes that after seeing “this horrible murder performed by people who did not want to do it,” he has lost faith in human beings, in God, in life, in everything (4.1.12.3).

•	He sits in the barracks for a long time without moving.

•	Eventually he realizes that he is watching a man nearby doing something. The man starts talking to him in a soothing voice, almost like a children’s nanny. He feeds a stray dog that comes to the door and then gives Pierre a baked potato.

•	Pierre has never eaten anything more delicious.

•	The little man introduces himself as Platon – which is the Russian name of the Greek philosopher Plato (but also a fairly common male name). Coincidence? Tolstoy doesn’t usually go in for the significant-name thing, so you be the judge.

•	The man speaks through a lot of proverbs and sayings, kind of rounding out all his peasant speech with folk wisdom. It’s all sort of deep, but Platon has the funny habit of not remembering anything that comes out of his mouth. He is entirely unable to repeat himself.

•	He tells Pierre that he became a soldier as punishment, but now sees that it’s better this way. He went instead of his brother, since his brother had two kids and Platon had none.

•	After Platon falls asleep, Pierre lies down and thinks about him. He feels a little bit of the faith again growing in his soul.

I found Platon really creepy... just overly familiar which I don't particularly love in real life, either (although am probably guilty of it slightly myself)...

Wonder what will happen to them both?

I’m finding the translation of peasants in the Penguin edition highly irritating: I don’t have a problem with using regional dialect to translate working-class speech, but I wish he’d stick with one. The dialect mash-up is getting on my nerves.

What are other translations like?

02/10/22
Volume 4, Part 1, Chapter 13

•	Pierre stays in this shed for four weeks with about twenty other prisoners. Later he would remember only Platon.

•	Platon is a round ball of a man, full of energy and positive vibes. He knows how to do almost everything – he cooks, sews, makes shoes, and so on.

•	He likes to talk a lot about himself and his life, mostly through peasant proverbs. He also likes to sing.

•	For Pierre, he will always be “the unfathomable, round, and eternal embodiment of the spirit of simplicity and truth” (4.1.13.10).

Is it the Briggs translation Channel?

I have the Maude translation and I haven't noticed this.

Yes, the Briggs translation.

I seem to be some criticism that Briggs gave the soldiers and 'working class accents' that weren't in the original. I'm mainly listening to an audio book so it's not so apparent to me.

That's interesting about the Briggs translation. I'm reading the Pevear and Volokhonsky translation and Platon's speech is in standard English. I didn't notice any difference in register really. It looks like Briggs has made a radical translation choice here.

I agree that the recent run of chapters has been harrowing. Pierre has gone from being a kind of bystander at the Battle of Borodino to being directly under threat himself. I'm thinking he must have massive PTSD after the execution experience, despite the soothing presence of Platon!

I'm resigned now to the idea of Nikolai marrying Marya instead of Sonya. But poor Sonya! Too many deserving self-sacrificing women, and not enough decent men. I was amused by the narrator telling us in Ch 7 that even though Nikolai scorns spirituality in men (and therefore doesn't like Andrei), he admires it in women. He's a bit of a lad, isn't he?! I hope he and Marya are able to get on in marriage, because Marya is spiritual to the utmost degree imaginable.

03/10/22
Volume 4, Part 1, Chapter 14

•	As soon as she hears that Andrei is with the Rostovs, Marya takes off for the city of Yaroslav.

•	It’s a hard trip, because the most direct road is in French hands, but Marya is full of energy, and she makes it in under two weeks.

•	Although she is very happy about Nikolai, feeling that he loves her as much as she loves him, she pushes all of this aside with the stress about Andrei.

•	In Yaroslav, she finds the house where the Rostovs are staying. No one will say how her brother is doing, so she goes straight to the house.

•	She first runs into the Countess, who starts to hug her. Marya is going crazy wanting to see Andrei or hear something about him, so she gets upset when the Rostovs start doing their visitor politeness formalities.

•	She asks to see Andrei again, but the Countess and Sonya are leading Nikolushka and Mlle. Bourienne into the house, and then doing more introductions.

•	Finally, as Marya is beginning to cry in frustration, Natasha bursts through the door.

•	Immediately, Marya can tell by her face that they are united in their fear and grief about Andrei. Marya falls into Natasha’s arms and starts to cry.

•	Natasha has a hard time explaining how Andrei is. We get the sense that he’s taken a turn for the worse, but it’s hard to really understand how – just that Natasha knows that he isn’t going to make it.

04/10/22
Volume 4, Part 1, Chapter 15

•	It turns out that two days ago, Andrei had kind of given up and become all soft and strange.

•	When Marya goes to see him, he asks about her and answers her questions in a totally flat, weird, alien voice, without any emotion or inflection at all.

•	Andrei has clearly disconnected himself from the living. He makes a bit of an effort to see his son and to pretend like he sort of cares about Moscow burning down, but he is just not there anymore.

•	Nikolushka, who is only seven, is somehow able to understand what’s happening with his dad and Marya and Natasha. After leaving the room, he hugs Natasha and starts to cry.