War and Peace readalong thread 2022 - thread 3

[VikingNorthUtsire]

Welcome to the third thread. Please see the OP in threads 1 or 2 for the full info.on the readalong, links to different editions and translations, blog posts, etc.

I think most of us are established now so for this post I'll just re-shsre the reading schedule

Different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

For the first time and I think it's because there's no human story in there, but I'm feeling 'done' with the war section. I expect I just speed-read my way through this last time... if he could just let us know how people are getting on, I'd be so happy but it's all a bit too 'big picture' and I'd like to move on!

I read on a bit. We're back to Pierre in Chapter 11.
I liked the war sections up to recently. Just this last one seems hard going with Tolstoy making the same point over and over with all the delicacy of a man with a sledgehammer.

I agree - finding it a slog at the moment.

His point about how battles are won was really interesting the first time he made it!

Yes I agree re this part being a slog, I felt this last time I read it too.
I feel like Tolstoys readers are reeled in by the human story but he uses that as a front for his philosophical/historical pondering which to him are the more important aspects of the book. I'm sure most readers feel like we do - just get back to the bloody story!

13/10/22

Volume 4, Part 2, Chapter 8

•	What should Napoleon have done when he got to Moscow?

•	Here are a few things: 1) keep the army from looting; 2) provide it with winter clothes from the vast stores of goods in Moscow; 3) get provisions, again from Moscow stores; 4) get all set up to beat up the last bit of the Russian army and then march on Petersburg.

•	Napoleon does none of these things.

•	Why is he considered such a genius? Tolstoy thinks it’s all propaganda.

I am glad I'm not the only one who's finding this section a real slog ... I'm stuck back in Pierre's prison and not sure when I will be emerging!

The ending of Chapter 12 was beautiful though.

'He could feel his ruined world rising up again in his soul with a new kind of beauty, and its new foundations were unshakable.'

Definitely. I think so too.

I think this will be a transformative experience for Pierre (if he gets through it!)

14/10/22

Volume 4, Part 2, Chapter 9

•	Here’s what Napoleon does do in Moscow:
1	He sends off Murat to figure out where Kutuzov and the Russian army went.
2	He draws up a map of a campaign across all of Russia.
3	He sends off some messengers to Alexander with a letter saying how he still really wants to be BFFs.
4	He writes and posts a couple of proclamations for Moscow inhabitants, calling all the merchants, workers, and peasants to come back, since there’ll be lots of protection for them, and also appointing some kind of city council to be a new government.
5	
6	He sets up theaters and gives money to the charitable institutions there.
7	He sets up a system of severe punishments for looting and pillaging.

Ignore the random '5' with no corresponding point there should only be 6 points.

wow, count me in

Were still technically on Chapter 9 today, as per Desdemona's summary, aren't we? I'm hoping Rebecca & Fuzzy have just read ahead a little?

I'm desperate to escape the endless pondering but worried I've somehow slipped up and could've been out of this purgatory sooner?

Oh no ... I thought I was behind? I was referring to Ch 12 in the previous section. I'm on a Kindle and it's sometimes confusing ... !

Yes it was the prev section!

Oops! I have read ahead a little. Sorry. I wanted to see what happens to Pierre.

15/10/22

Volume 4, Part 2, Chapter 10

•	Does Napoleon's work? Um, no.

•	Murat can’t find Kutuzov.

•	The messengers never even get to Alexander.

•	All of Moscow burns down.

•	Looting and pillaging goes on without stop.

•	Whoever tried to deliver the proclamations to the peasants hiding in the woods was captured and killed.

•	The theaters immediately failed because the actors and actresses were harassed and robbed.

•	There is theft, fighting, robbery, and rape everywhere.

•	After all that, the French army is suddenly gripped by fear after the battle at Tarutino, and they flee Moscow.

•	But first they load up with stolen goods and loot and are as heavily weighed down with stuff as they could possibly be.

•	Does Napoleon tell them to leave all this stuff behind? No, he just figures it’ll be fine.

•	To sum up, with some awesome mockery on Tolstoy’s part: “During the whole of that period Napoleon, who seems to us to have been the leader of all these movements – as the figurehead of a ship may seem to a savage to guide the vessel – acted like a child who, holding a couple of straps tied inside a carriage, thinks that he is driving it” (4.2.10.22). Oh snap!

I'm finding this fascinating. I recently went to an exhibition in the town where I live which was all about the great efforts made to get the works of art back which had been taken by Napoleon's army!

I’m up to here on the thread, didn’t start Book 3 until September (so 3 months behind the actual start read date) and just finished Book 3 Part 2 (now 2 months behind). I had to post now because wow that Part had so much development… Reading it quickly did take away from the depth of the sheer amount of things happening and evolution of the characters perspective. At one point Andrei says “I’ve just lost my dad and my childhood home” and I was like oh wow really he has in my last hour of reading! But I guess that’s how it rolls when chaos happens. I found the section where the characters refuse to accept the reality even while the French front actually reaches them so ridiculous but such an accurate portrayal of humanity - didn’t that happen in a way with covid? Lots of people refusing to accept until the lockdown actually happened. Loved the closer with Napoleon having the confidence and floor swept out from under him, Tolstoy describes it so well with the image of in a dream going to hit your enemy but finding your arm powerless. Feel sorry for Anatole and his leg amputation despite his awful character. Didn’t see it noted in comments yet, but noticed that Andrei and Natasha had the same conclusion “it’s all about loving everyone” with different paths (religious discipline versus war trauma). I think it was @VikingNorthUtsire who mentioned the “zooming in and out” Tolstoy deploys; by making us feel so close to people zoomed in across the hierarchy in different parts of Russia (Nikolai’s poor mum!), we really felt the pain of the war on scale, which I think we usually can’t comprehend (think I read once past a certain number of casualties our empathy doesn’t have the ability to keep increasing so we compartmentalise it on a different scale). Even the poor young cannon commander by Pierre who ended curled up like a little bird, I could imagine him similar to Nikolai and a mother mourning him.

Hope to catch up soon, really want to finish with you all in December and maybe watch the tv series together :)

Welcome back BakeOff, I've been a bit behind too but caught up to within 5 chapters now.

16/10/22

Volume 4, Part 2, Chapter 11

•	On October 6, the day of the battle re-do down south, Pierre is living the life of a peasant prisoner. (He didn’t want to be transferred to the officers’ prison shed.) He’s hanging out with a little dog, with barely any clothes to his name, and no longer quite so fat.

•	The French guards are palling around with him, and he’s still friends with Platon.

•	A French soldier chats with him about a sick prisoner. Seems like Pierre gets preferential treatment, and now he’s using it to get this guy some help.

•	Another soldier comes by to pick up a shirt that he asked Platon to sew for him. Wow, Platon is like an apocalypse MVP – he cooks, he sews, he tells longs stories that seem really deep.

•	At first the soldier wants to take back the leftover scraps of cloth, but then he feels bad and leaves them for Platon, who is going to make foot cloths out of them (like socks, we’re guessing?). It’s a nice moment of human connection.

This last chapter shows just how wonderful Tolstoy's writing can be... totally sucked me straight back in!

Love his setting of a scene, it is so evocative and I can totally see Pierre - leaner, hardened but still a total softie inside. This is great.

It's good to see you again, BakeOff! That was an excellent section with so much action in it, it's just brilliant. I remember the shock of realising it was Anatole who was about to lose his leg.

Chapter 11. It was great to catch up with Pierre again. The description of him wriggling his toes in the sun was good. Something simple and satisfying. The interaction between Platon and the soldier was a nice bit of human interaction. It's good to see the daily aspects of people's lives again. Yes, the setting of the scene was lovely . Even the description of the dog was a pleasure to read. Gosh, I'm easily pleased :)

17/10/22

Volume 4, Part 2, Chapter 12

•	It’s been four weeks of prison life so far for 

•	Oddly enough, now that he’s had every single thing in his life taken away from him, Pierre is feeling more at peace than ever before.

•	He’s got a new theory of happiness now, too. Basically he thinks happiness is the same as contentment. In other words, if you’re not actively miserable, that means you’re happy.

•	Now all he wants is to be free and out of the prison. He feels strong, healthy, and ready for anything.

Thought this latest chapter was quite a good lesson in realising you only need your basic needs to be fulfilled to be content, and everything else is window dressing. Really good to see Pierre transformed.

I did think there was a bit more to the tale of the soldier, Pierre and Platon than Schmoop implies. The soldier was somewhat guilted into leaving the cloth offcuts by Platon pretending not to understand his request and Pierre just gazing at him. I think it showed Platon is quite shrewd under that eccentric exterior!

I’ve been reading ahead because I’m going away for a few days, and I’m pleased to say that Denisov is back, lisp and all.