War and Peace Readalong thread 2022

[VikingNorthUtsire]

Interest thread for the 2022 War and Peace readalong

THIS OP WAS UPDATED on 4/1 BY MNHQ (THANK YOU) TO ADD MORE DETAIL TO THE READING SCHEDULE AND UPDATE THE AMAZON LINKS

"The finest novel ever written on this planet"
"Here is a novel that is worth whatever time one gives to it. There is more life between its cover than in any other existent fictional narrative"

This is a really helpful blog post by someone who has done the challenge: nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/announcing-the-2020-war-and-peace-chapter-a-day-read-along

1. Translations

The main complication seems to be which edition to choose. The blog post above contains some commentary of the different tranlsations that are available and their merits. There's also a pretty comprehensive guide here including samples from some of the best-known translations: welovetranslations.com/2021/08/31/whats-the-best-translation-of-war-and-peace-by-tolstoy/

The main differences that I can see are:

• some editions (including the free download on Project Gutenburg) have a different chapter structure. I think/hope we would manage to find one another if some are reading versions with more or fewer chapters but I have based the readalong on the versions with 361 chapters.

• there's quite a lot of French in at least some parts of the book. Some editions translate it into English, others keep it in French but use footnotes

• some translators have chosen to anglicise the characters' names. I guess its personal preference whether you prefer Mary, Andrew and Basil or a more Russian version.

Looking at the editions recommended and reviewed in the above blog:

The Vintage Classics edition, translated by Pevear and Volokhonsky: ]]

NB also this link for the kindle version: ]]

The Signet Classics edition, translated by Anne Dunnigan: ]]

The Penguin Classics edition, translated by Anthony Briggs: ]]

As a general rule I would definitely recommend downloading a sample of any kindle edition before buying, so you can be sure that you are happy with it.

Obviously, some people will prefer to avoid Amazon! Feel free to use the weeks in the run-up to Day 1 to share any tips on what you are buying and where from. Can I suggest though that we stick where possible to the editions with 361 chapters otherwise we will all get very confused!

1. Reading timeline

Nick, of the blog post, has very helpfully done the calculations for which chapters fall on which days, except he did it in 2020 which was a Leap Year. So feel free to take a look at nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Nicks-2020-War-and-Peace-Chapter-a-Day-Reading-Schedule.pdf but see below the schedule for the Mumsnet Readalong.

Again, different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

Phew!

I would suggest that we meet at the end of each section (so 17 times over the course of the year) to discuss what we've read, but with (non-spoilerish) chatter welcome at any time in between. According to my guru, Nick, each chapter is around 4 pages long, so it should be do-able.

1. Chapter "meditations"

This looks like another really interesting blog post from someone who has done it, with thoughts and meditations on each chapter: brianedenton.medium.com/a-year-of-war-and-peace-cc66540d9619#.yabefbbgz

Come and join me! This time next year we will almost have finished reading the finest novel ever written on the planet.

PS Some may feel that each day off deserves a shot of vodka or two. I couldn't possibly comment.

Joining 😁
I thought I posted earlier but it seems not to have worked.

Originally downloaded the free Kindle Unlimited text which is the same one advertised as Pevear and Volokhonsky but was actually Maude.

Having now read through the notes and sample texts of the different translations I am going for Briggs which has cost me £2.99. So far (2 chapters) it is reading and flowing very well.

So tempting to carry on and get ahead but I think slow and steady wins the race.

Placemarking to say I'll join in! I'll be reading on my Kindle. Bought the Pevear and Volokhonsky version, I think, as I remember them translating Anna Karenina about 15 years ago and reading a review that said it was a good translation, but pleasantly modern in feel.

Until I saw this thread, I never thought I'd tackle W&P. It is just SO long and I couldn't imagine committing to such a huge book, but a chapter a day I think I can manage. Thanks @VikingNorthUtsire

I'd completely forgotten I'd signed up for this until just now - better get started!

I am reading on kindle and listening on audible at the same time. The translations are slightly different which isn’t a problem but I am hating the audible narrator. I am hoping I get used to it but at the moment I just can’t stand his voice.

Chapter 3 done. I am really enjoying the description of the characters. Helene is particularly interesting.

Chapter 3: We’re still at the party. Hélène is drawing every eye with her seemingly supernatural beauty. She glides rather than walks as men clear a path for her, gawping in her wake. She’s like the most Super of supermodels dropped amongst the mere mortals. So beautiful is she that she has no need of artifice or conventional courtship methods:
“Hélène was so exquisite that she not only avoided the slightest hint of flirtatiousness, she even seemed to be embarrassed by the all-too-evident, truly devastating beauty that was hers. It was as if she wanted to tone down the effect of her beauty, but couldn’t do so.”
She is however not above pride in herself and seems quite taken with her own perfection:
“The princess rested her round, bare arm on a little table and found it unnecessary to say anything. She smiled, and she waited. Sitting up straight throughout the viscount’s story, she glanced down occasionally either at her beautiful, round arm so casually draped across the table, or at her still lovelier bosom and the diamond necklace above it that kept needing adjustment.”

Anna Pavlovna continues to spin all the plates, like a maestro conductor ensuring every element of the orchestra is in tune, she becomes aware that Pierre is again striking a bum note, allowing political argument to threaten her soirée, and rushes over to remedy the situation.

Enter stage left our next big mover and shaker, Andrei Bolkonsky - son of the wealthy but miserly, clever but eccentric Prince Bolkonsky, brother to sad Maria Bolkonsky, (who Vassily now has his sights on for marriage to his wayward son Anatole) and husband to the pregnant chipmunk, Lise Bolkonsky.
He’s young and handsome (And short! Really Tolstoy? I never imagine him as short!) but world weary and embittered. It’s not a ‘too cool for school swagger’ he seems to have a genuine dislike of the people and society around him, and is positively chomping at the bit to get off to war working as an aide to General Kutuzov.
It’s difficult to tell if his disenchantment with his wife and marriage is a symptom of his general malaise or the cause of it. Certainly the marriage must be a fairly recent one as they are both young and she is carrying their first child. But he seems to be the walking embodiment of the old adage ‘marry in haste repent at leisure’. Nothing she can do or say appeals to him indeed he seems to have reached the death knell point of any relationship where EVERYTHING she does or says irritates him:
“of all the wearisome faces it was the face of his own pretty wife that seemed to bore him most. With a snarl distorting his handsome face he turned away from her.”

Only one thing makes this tiresome party bearable for Andrei and that is meeting his old friend Pierre again, he is the one person on whom he bestows a genuine ‘sweet and pleasant’ smile and a heartfelt handshake.
They agree to meet for dinner and then join the gawpers to check out Hélène:
Princess Hélène, moved off between the chairs, and the smile on her gorgeous face was more radiant than ever. Pierre watched this vision of beauty go past, his eyes brimming with rapture and something not far from terror. ‘Isn’t she lovely?’ said Prince Andrey. ‘Yes, she is,’ said Pierre.”
And right at the end of this chapter we learn that Pierre has had plenty of time to become enamoured of Hélène as he’s been staying with Prince Vassily and his troublesome children for the past month.
As he takes his leave of the party Vassily takes Pierre by the arm and implores Anna Pavlovna “Can you please train this bear for me?” So it was obviously Tolstoy that put the image of Pierre as a bear in my head, I should have known it wouldn’t be an original thought!

Excellent résumé, Desdemona!

Princess Hélène: Exquisitely beautiful but dim.
Prince Hippolyte: A total dimwit.
Anna Pavlovna: The hostess with the mostest. Impressive people management skills.

'Can you please train this bear for me?' Rude!

I loved Vasilly’s plea to Anna at the end. Brilliant.

Thanks Fuzzy yours is on the nose and far less verbose

@DesdamonasHandkerchief

Thanks Fuzzy yours is on the nose and far less verbose

Desdemona

I admire your verbosity.

Thank you to all those who are posting and helping me to work out who is who. Currently a bit confused by Tolstoy's habit of referring to "the princess" or "the Frenchman" instead of using names - I'm sure it will all start to come together after a few more chapters.

Also my brain reads "Bolkonsky" as "Bollockski" which isn't helping.

The bear bit is in chapter 4 in my edition. Are the breaks in different places?

Hi @cherrypi, I believe that some editions break up the chapters differently to others - I mentioned it in my OP but have also asked MNHQ if they can edit that first post to make it a bit clearer. Unfortunately without having access to the different editions, it's going to be a bit of a case of working it out as we go along.

All of the information I could find online suggests that all editions break into 15 main sections plus two epilogues, so I am hoping we will all be able to regroup at the end of each section for our discussions.

What edition do you have, Cherrypi?

I am on chapter 20 🤦🏻‍♀️ It takes me a chapter to get into it each time and I just keep going. With my baby due I guess a bit of a headstart is a good idea. I think I may finish it in a month though. I enjoy the discussion here and the recaps as we go along still though!

Thanks for the notes Desdemona at this rate you’ll have a whole new translation on your hands!

No kindle but realised I can get the sample of the Penguin Briggs on my phone, thanks for the link. As a one-time languages student who avoided literature wherever possible, I’m finding this translation question interesting. Frankly, Briggs’ intro is serving to confirm me on Team Maude:

“There is one way in which all the existing versions fall short: from Constance Garnett onwards they have been produced by women of a particular social and cultural background (Louise having contributed more than Aylmer to the Maudes’ version), with some resulting flatness and implausibility in the dialogue, especially that between soldiers, peasants and all the lower orders. A specialist critic puts it well, speaking of the Maudes, who are the most highly regarded translators: ‘Their work can always be counted on for … negative virtues: sobriety, explicitness, a firm hold on the argument. However, their resources are limited in range of tone. They have little sense of colloquial idiom…’2 To take a specific example: Pierre, watching as a cannonball crashes down into the Rayevsky redoubt and takes a man’s leg off, hears another soldier call out in response: ‘Ekh! Neskladnaya!’ (III, II, 31). The English versions of this are: ‘Ekh! You beastly thing!’ (Dole); ‘Oh, awkward one!’ (Weiner); ‘Hey, awkward hussy!’ (Garnett); ‘Awkward baggage!’ (Maude); ‘Oh you hussy!’ (Edmonds); ‘Ah, you’re a bungler!’ (Dunnigan). Curiously enough the best in terms of natural speech is Clara Bell’s: ‘Ah, you brute!’ The original, with connotations of both awkwardness and femininity, is rather difficult to translate, but one thing is certain: no soldier in the heat of battle ever said anything like most of the phrases we have been offered so far.”

Hmmm… is it not fair to say that Tolstoy himself was ‘of a particular social and cultural background’ and perhaps more at home amongst princes than peasants? Granted Tolstoy didn’t commit the sin of being female but is a present-day male academic really so much more down with the napoleonic soldiers than an earlier translator team that had the disadvantage of having had a woman on it - a woman who, heaven forbid, did most of the work? (And yet, yes the example translations are jarring, but I wouldn’t say it was representative of most of the translation).

Another point he makes is that it was an early version that had whole passages of French in, Tolstoy’s later version had less.

There is much more to unpick in the intro around updating texts which is really interesting - yes some phrases in old translations might read as laughably inappropriate (“he ejaculated with a grimace”, from the context I don’t think this was a sex scene) but isn’t that the case when reading English language classics too, and part of the ‘classics’ experience?

He also talks about how the way of answering in the affirmative is characteristic in Russian and literal translations (not sure which ones these are) jar. Probably true initially but wouldn’t a reader be expected to get their ear into it over the 1300 pages?

Whoops - hadn’t meant to rant - perhaps I should stop procrastinating and get on with the reading!

The 75p one from the first post.

I've now abandoned the 75p one and gone for the £2.99 Penguin translation by Anthony Briggs, which I prefer to the Pevear and Volokhonsky, which seems clunky by comparison. The Penguin version also has the text broken down by Book, Part and Chapter, which makes it easier to follow the plan in the OP.

I've gone for the Briggs version too. Only read Ch1 so far, but doesn't seem clunky.

Cherry I had the 75p version as it was wrongly listed on Amazon as being the Pevear and Volokhonsky vintage edition - I think they may have fixed that problem now. I have returned it and got a refund now but can you tell how many chapters there are altogether?

I've asked MNHQ if they can update my OP since I've discovered that the Kindle listings were inaccurate.

There's fifteen books and twenty eight chapters in book one.

Cherrypi I've got the Maude version and it's the same as yours (28 chapters in book 1 and the bear comment is in ch4 rather than ch3). But the total number of chapters in the book is almost the same, so I think that if we do a chapter a day it will be okay.

Ah thanks. I think if I've added it up in my head correctly it has 365 chapters which is close enough for me. I'll just carry on during the days off. Might still do the vodka though

@BakeOffRewatch

Mine just has chapter numbers, no chapter titles.

It’s the 75p one on Amazon, The Vintage Classics edition, translated by Pevear and Volokhonsky ]]

Book One: 1805, 28 chapters
Book Two: 1805, 21 chapters
Book Three: 1805, 19 chapters
Book Four: 1806, 16 chapters
Book Five: 1806-1807, 22 chapters
Book Six: 1808-1810, 26 chapters
Book Seven: 1810-1811, 13 chapters
Book Eight: 1811-1812, 22 chapters
Book Nine: 1812, 23 chapters
Book Ten: 1812, 39 chapters
Book Eleven: 1812, 34 chapters
Book Twelve: 1812, 16 chapters
Book Thirteen: 1812, 19 chapters
Book Fourteen: 1812, 19 chapters
Book Fifteen: 1812-1813, 20 chapters
First Epilogue: 1813-1820, 16 chapters
Second Epilogue: 12 chapters

@VikingNorthUtsire my post above was for the 75p version.

I’ve got the proper Pevear Vintage Classics edition on Kindle now: ]]

So today I read the Introduction, re-read the first two chapters and the third. The discussion on the translations is so interesting. The Pevear & Volokhonsky introduction says they tried to emulate the way the text is experienced. The first two chapters were definitely a different experience for me. In the other one (the 75p one here www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07MGHPFBJ/)?tag=mumsnetforu03-21 they seemed more distant, and the guests seemed snootier and ruder, the words used for how they turned away from the ill aunt were stronger. The P&V translation seems to have a kinder, more approachable lens in these chapters. But it makes the point about contemporary readers having a different relationship with words. Brings home how transient the experience of reading a book is. If it’s that different reading it at different ages in one persons lifetime, how many different ways can a text that is 150 years old be received.

Direct link to the blog meditation:
brianedenton.medium.com/enter-prince-andrei-bolkonsky-f6742abf9ebc#.faz2rgwoy

I'm a bit confused by all the translation talk. I'd forgotten and am now a bit late but can catch up! So if I have no edition as yet, which should I go for? My French is poor, I don't mind spending money on it but don't really want paras of French.