War and Peace Readalong thread 2022

[VikingNorthUtsire]

Interest thread for the 2022 War and Peace readalong

THIS OP WAS UPDATED on 4/1 BY MNHQ (THANK YOU) TO ADD MORE DETAIL TO THE READING SCHEDULE AND UPDATE THE AMAZON LINKS

"The finest novel ever written on this planet"
"Here is a novel that is worth whatever time one gives to it. There is more life between its cover than in any other existent fictional narrative"

This is a really helpful blog post by someone who has done the challenge: nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/announcing-the-2020-war-and-peace-chapter-a-day-read-along

1. Translations

The main complication seems to be which edition to choose. The blog post above contains some commentary of the different tranlsations that are available and their merits. There's also a pretty comprehensive guide here including samples from some of the best-known translations: welovetranslations.com/2021/08/31/whats-the-best-translation-of-war-and-peace-by-tolstoy/

The main differences that I can see are:

• some editions (including the free download on Project Gutenburg) have a different chapter structure. I think/hope we would manage to find one another if some are reading versions with more or fewer chapters but I have based the readalong on the versions with 361 chapters.

• there's quite a lot of French in at least some parts of the book. Some editions translate it into English, others keep it in French but use footnotes

• some translators have chosen to anglicise the characters' names. I guess its personal preference whether you prefer Mary, Andrew and Basil or a more Russian version.

Looking at the editions recommended and reviewed in the above blog:

The Vintage Classics edition, translated by Pevear and Volokhonsky: ]]

NB also this link for the kindle version: ]]

The Signet Classics edition, translated by Anne Dunnigan: ]]

The Penguin Classics edition, translated by Anthony Briggs: ]]

As a general rule I would definitely recommend downloading a sample of any kindle edition before buying, so you can be sure that you are happy with it.

Obviously, some people will prefer to avoid Amazon! Feel free to use the weeks in the run-up to Day 1 to share any tips on what you are buying and where from. Can I suggest though that we stick where possible to the editions with 361 chapters otherwise we will all get very confused!

1. Reading timeline

Nick, of the blog post, has very helpfully done the calculations for which chapters fall on which days, except he did it in 2020 which was a Leap Year. So feel free to take a look at nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Nicks-2020-War-and-Peace-Chapter-a-Day-Reading-Schedule.pdf but see below the schedule for the Mumsnet Readalong.

Again, different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

Phew!

I would suggest that we meet at the end of each section (so 17 times over the course of the year) to discuss what we've read, but with (non-spoilerish) chatter welcome at any time in between. According to my guru, Nick, each chapter is around 4 pages long, so it should be do-able.

1. Chapter "meditations"

This looks like another really interesting blog post from someone who has done it, with thoughts and meditations on each chapter: brianedenton.medium.com/a-year-of-war-and-peace-cc66540d9619#.yabefbbgz

Come and join me! This time next year we will almost have finished reading the finest novel ever written on the planet.

PS Some may feel that each day off deserves a shot of vodka or two. I couldn't possibly comment.

Stokey - Briggs is a popular one, a modern translation, e.g. this one www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Penguin-Popular-Classics-ebook/dp/B0033805UG/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_nodl?crid=35CSS1N7I1IJL&keywords=war+and+peace+kindle&sprefix=war+and+peace+kindle&tag=mumsnetforu03-21,aps,68&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1641125160&sr=8-1 worth at least looking at the sample and whether the intro puts you off.

Personally I’m team Maude - the cons are that my chapter structure is different, my old library copy more so than updated Maude versions so I have 260ish chapters rather than 360ish but these are grouped into 15 books so I can work with it over the month. Also my old edition has anglicised names eg Prince Andrew. The main pros are that Briggs’ intro has got my back up, and to my mind Maude reads like a more ‘classic’ period read. If I could be bothered I’d look at the updated Maude www.amazon.co.uk/War-Peace-Oxford-Worlds-Classics-ebook/dp/B005X3S9J8/ref=mp_s_a_1_6?crid=30M6BJ7TLVEGR&keywords=war+and+peace+kindle+oup&sprefix=war+and+peace+kindle+oup%2Caps%2C59&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1641245227&sr=8-6 as it sounds like the names have been de-anglicised. My Maude doesn’t have blocks of French, just phrases here and there but just things like ‘mon très honorable’ which aren’t too taxing. Don’t know what the newer version does.

Maybe sample the Briggs and the updated Maude and see what you think?

Stokey, the first chapter has loads of French, so if you download a kindle sample or flick through the opening pages in a bookshop, you'll know how much untranslated French you're in for!

Thanks @Cornishblues @VikingNorthUtsire. I'm going Kindle so b will try both samples and decide!

I've made a start with the first 22 pages, which in this edition is chapter 1, 'Anna Scherer's soiree'.

I read this years ago and remember having to plough through the first chapter as if it was a spoof, until I got lost in the story and started enjoying it. But this time I really enjoyed the soiree, the characters and Anna's anxious shepherding of the conversation, the clever creation of this additional story element that prevents the party from being pure exposition.

And I absolutely love the idea of Hippolyte in his trousers presumably of very pale pink? Thigh of a frightened nymph? Gorgeous.

@PermanentTemporary

I've made a start with the first 22 pages, which in this edition is chapter 1, 'Anna Scherer's soiree'.

I read this years ago and remember having to plough through the first chapter as if it was a spoof, until I got lost in the story and started enjoying it. But this time I really enjoyed the soiree, the characters and Anna's anxious shepherding of the conversation, the clever creation of this additional story element that prevents the party from being pure exposition.

And I absolutely love the idea of Hippolyte in his trousers presumably of very pale pink? Thigh of a frightened nymph? Gorgeous.

Ahh pale pink makes sense! I was wondering what in hell colour "thigh of a frightened nymph" was supposed to be!

I'm on p30 and enjoying it so far. A bit disappointed that my version doesn't have the ton of French though (I'm a French teacher!).

I'm enjoying the switch between English and French, it makes me feel like part of the aristocracy! Sadly, my conversational skills are akin to Ippolit's. (Can't remember how to spell it!)

Chapter 4 complete. Looking forward to Desdemona’s verbosity.

I love some of the names that Tolstoy has picked - Hippolyte is just wonderful.

I’m Team Pierre in the debate that ensues in this chapter (though I’m no Napoleon expert).

@rifling he was so hilariously inept.

Haha, posh twits in pink trousers were a thing in 19th century Russia then!

I've just read chapter four. It was very lively. Poor Anna Pavlovna trying to keep Pierre the Bear from spoiling her soirée!

Ah - so the 75p version's translation isn't by Pevear and Volokhonsky? So who is it by? I didn't like it and much prefer the Penguin translation by Anthony Briggs.

Verbosity incoming!

Chapter 4:
In which we meet the original helicopter parent Princess Drubetskoy (confusingly also referred to as Anna Mikhaylovna in the Briggs translation) she has one son, Boris, and is very sensibly intent on getting him a nice safe posting during the war.
She uses what little influence she has over Prince Vasily - the fact that her father helped Vasily climb the greasy pole when he was young man - to persuade him to act on her sons behalf.
Vasily mulls over his position:
“influence in society is capital, which must be carefully conserved so it doesn’t run out. Prince Vasily was aware of this, and, realizing that, if he were to petition for everybody who petitioned him, all too soon he would be unable to petition for himself, he rarely made use of his influence.”
Despite his initial reluctance however Princess Drubetskoy has managed to appeal to his better nature, Vasily has a qualm of conscience and, perhaps more importantly, realises she is the sort of woman who won’t give him a moments peace until she has her way!

He guarantees he will do the impossible and ensure Boris is offered a guards position out of harms way.
Triumphant and relieved Princess Drubetskoy, having got her inch, pushes for the mile - she immediately requests that once in the guards Vasily recommends her son personally to General Kutuzov as an aide. (The very same position Andrei Bolkonsky - or Bollockski if you prefer, as I think I do! - has somehow bagged.) Prince Vasily runs out of patience with the old woman (much emphasis is placed on her age by Tolstoy, although how old can she be with, I’m assuming, a late teenage son?) and insists he can make no such promise as every high society mother in Moscow is bending the General’s ear to take their sons on as aide de camps. He irritably makes his excuses and leaves.

Meanwhile back at the party the talk, led by Pavlovna’s guest of honour the French viscount, has once again turned to Napoleon and his barbarous ways.
Pierre scandalises those present by launching into an impassioned speech defending and praising Boneparte which Andrei endorses.
Anna Pavlovna is practically hyper ventilating in her efforts to shut Pierre up and lead him to any other table than the one he’s monopolising.

Hippolyte, fetching in his nude nymph shade of trousers, amply demonstrates his fathers description of him as an idiot by first scratching the outline of a coat of arms on the furniture using one of Lisa’s needles (Whats that all about? I’m assuming Anna P.‘s side tables aren’t exactly ply wood mass produced types, and even if they were graffitiing on them doesn’t seem to be a great way of making friends and influencing people.) He then tells a deeply unfunny story about a maid being made to double for a Footman which only he seems to find hilarious, everyone else smiles politely in bemused fashion. It does, at least, have the effect of changing the subject which is no doubt of great relief to Anna P.

Excellent, Desdemona! Top marks

My favourite moment; 'Merciful heaven!' Anna Pavlovna intoned in a horrified whisper.

I found Chapter 4 very funny indeed - the wit of the book so far has been a pleasant surprise! I am torn for a favourite moment between

^"Prince Ippolit...suddenly turned completely round to the little princess, and having asked for a needle began tracing the Condé coat-of-arms on the table. He explained this to her with as much gravity as if she had asked him to do it."
^
And

"Moreover, he could see by her manner that she was one of those women - mostly mothers - who having once made up their minds, will not rest until they have gained their end, and are prepared if necessary to go on insisting day after day and hour after hour, and even to make scenes. This last consideration moved him."

Yes, as Desdemona points out, it's noticeable that women over 40 are all 'old' and seem to be described in terms of faded looks and how their smiles don't suit their careworn faces! Instead, we'll focus on the beautiful princesses with their gorgeous flaws...

Hippolyte's efforts to draw attention to himself with a rubbish story that is funny only to him reminds me of so many bad social occasions.

@zafferana

Ah - so the 75p version's translation isn't by Pevear and Volokhonsky? So who is it by? I didn't like it and much prefer the Penguin translation by Anthony Briggs.

I had this one and judging by Viking's link it was the Maude version. I also downloaded Briggs subsequently and it's definitely a much more modern take.

Thanks for the amusing summaries, @DesdamonasHandkerchief!

This bit “Princess Drubetskoy (confusingly also referred to as Anna Mikhaylovna” made me think it might be helpful just to explain about Russian names, as you need to understand this to keep up with who’s who in the book. Ignore if you already know!

Russians all have three names - a first name, a patronymic, and a family name. Women’s patronymics are derived from their fathers name plus “yevna” on the end. Men’s patronymics are derived from their father’s name plus “‘yevich” on the end (the transliteration into English sometimes changes the exact spelling).

So Anna - first name. Mikhaylovna - daughter of Mikhail. Drubestkoy - her family name.

If you want to address a Russian formally / respectfully to their face, or referring to them to someone else, you call them by their first name plus patrynomic. It’s a bit like calling them Mrs / Mr Smith, but you never say Mrs Drubetskoy.

Then Russians love to use diminutives too - pet names, but much more common than in England. It’s like if you’re called Charlotte, your family and friends will very often call you Lottie, or Char, or Charlie.

Sometimes the diminutive is fairly obvious - eg Anna calls her son Boris Borinka. Sometimes not, eg a diminutive of Alexander is Sasha!

So in reading W&P a character could be referred to just by their first name (Anna) or a diminutive of it (Annette) (which might in some cases be quite different to the first name), or their first name plus patrynomic (Anna Mikhaylovna) or their status plus family name (“Princess Drubetskoy”). Which can get quite confusing!

Also confused about why a guest in a posh house thinks it’s ok to scratch a host’s table, and peeved about the descriptions of women over 40 as old (as a women in my early 40s!)!

@Wigeon

Thanks for the amusing summaries, *@DesdamonasHandkerchief*!

This bit “Princess Drubetskoy (confusingly also referred to as Anna Mikhaylovna” made me think it might be helpful just to explain about Russian names, as you need to understand this to keep up with who’s who in the book. Ignore if you already know!

Russians all have three names - a first name, a patronymic, and a family name. Women’s patronymics are derived from their fathers name plus “yevna” on the end. Men’s patronymics are derived from their father’s name plus “‘yevich” on the end (the transliteration into English sometimes changes the exact spelling).

So Anna - first name. Mikhaylovna - daughter of Mikhail. Drubestkoy - her family name.

If you want to address a Russian formally / respectfully to their face, or referring to them to someone else, you call them by their first name plus patrynomic. It’s a bit like calling them Mrs / Mr Smith, but you never say Mrs Drubetskoy.

Then Russians love to use diminutives too - pet names, but much more common than in England. It’s like if you’re called Charlotte, your family and friends will very often call you Lottie, or Char, or Charlie.

Sometimes the diminutive is fairly obvious - eg Anna calls her son Boris Borinka. Sometimes not, eg a diminutive of Alexander is Sasha!

So in reading W&P a character could be referred to just by their first name (Anna) or a diminutive of it (Annette) (which might in some cases be quite different to the first name), or their first name plus patrynomic (Anna Mikhaylovna) or their status plus family name (“Princess Drubetskoy”). Which can get quite confusing!

Thanks for that! Good to know.

Aaaarh, now it all makes sense, thanks for that Wigeon. No wonder I got confused with who was who first time around. And just to confuse things further several characters have the same first name - already two Anna's in the first four chapters!

That’s a Tolstoy speciality. In Anna Karenina both her husband and her lover are called Alexei!

@StColumbofNavron

That’s a Tolstoy speciality. In Anna Karenina both her husband and her lover are called Alexei!

Not sure whether that's convenient or super awkward

Just finished chapter 4 and I'm really enjoying the chapter a day approach. I'm so tempted to plough on but sticking to a chapter a day means I'm taking my time and savouring the book.

Just a heads-up, the OP has been updated to remove the link to the 75p copy (which I don't think has 361 chapters), and to add more information about the chapters in the reading schedule