War and Peace Readalong thread 2022

[VikingNorthUtsire]

Interest thread for the 2022 War and Peace readalong

THIS OP WAS UPDATED on 4/1 BY MNHQ (THANK YOU) TO ADD MORE DETAIL TO THE READING SCHEDULE AND UPDATE THE AMAZON LINKS

"The finest novel ever written on this planet"
"Here is a novel that is worth whatever time one gives to it. There is more life between its cover than in any other existent fictional narrative"

This is a really helpful blog post by someone who has done the challenge: nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/announcing-the-2020-war-and-peace-chapter-a-day-read-along

1. Translations

The main complication seems to be which edition to choose. The blog post above contains some commentary of the different tranlsations that are available and their merits. There's also a pretty comprehensive guide here including samples from some of the best-known translations: welovetranslations.com/2021/08/31/whats-the-best-translation-of-war-and-peace-by-tolstoy/

The main differences that I can see are:

• some editions (including the free download on Project Gutenburg) have a different chapter structure. I think/hope we would manage to find one another if some are reading versions with more or fewer chapters but I have based the readalong on the versions with 361 chapters.

• there's quite a lot of French in at least some parts of the book. Some editions translate it into English, others keep it in French but use footnotes

• some translators have chosen to anglicise the characters' names. I guess its personal preference whether you prefer Mary, Andrew and Basil or a more Russian version.

Looking at the editions recommended and reviewed in the above blog:

The Vintage Classics edition, translated by Pevear and Volokhonsky: ]]

NB also this link for the kindle version: ]]

The Signet Classics edition, translated by Anne Dunnigan: ]]

The Penguin Classics edition, translated by Anthony Briggs: ]]

As a general rule I would definitely recommend downloading a sample of any kindle edition before buying, so you can be sure that you are happy with it.

Obviously, some people will prefer to avoid Amazon! Feel free to use the weeks in the run-up to Day 1 to share any tips on what you are buying and where from. Can I suggest though that we stick where possible to the editions with 361 chapters otherwise we will all get very confused!

1. Reading timeline

Nick, of the blog post, has very helpfully done the calculations for which chapters fall on which days, except he did it in 2020 which was a Leap Year. So feel free to take a look at nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Nicks-2020-War-and-Peace-Chapter-a-Day-Reading-Schedule.pdf but see below the schedule for the Mumsnet Readalong.

Again, different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

Phew!

I would suggest that we meet at the end of each section (so 17 times over the course of the year) to discuss what we've read, but with (non-spoilerish) chatter welcome at any time in between. According to my guru, Nick, each chapter is around 4 pages long, so it should be do-able.

1. Chapter "meditations"

This looks like another really interesting blog post from someone who has done it, with thoughts and meditations on each chapter: brianedenton.medium.com/a-year-of-war-and-peace-cc66540d9619#.yabefbbgz

Come and join me! This time next year we will almost have finished reading the finest novel ever written on the planet.

PS Some may feel that each day off deserves a shot of vodka or two. I couldn't possibly comment.

Bagration (pronounced Bah-graph-tee-ón with the emphasis on the “on”) was a Russian general (ethnically he was Georgian but served in Russia).
In the city I’m from we had a street named after him.

I don’t know if it’s fair to compare Napoleonic war of 1812 to WW2 because Russia in 1812 was not at all the same country that it became in 1939. And I don’t just mean geographically.

Thanks for that, Mb76: I was thinking of him as some kind of compound noun, bag + ration, which clearly wasn’t right. (I had a relative by marriage, a very respectable suburban housewife, who announced at my DGF’s funeral that her father had been an anti-Tsarist revolutionary in Georgia, which was a bit of a surprise.)
Btw, just to clarify, the rape of women in wartime is, of course, a universal, historical phenomenon; there’s nothing particularly Russian about it. I tried to post a link to a review in the NYT of a book about it, but I can’t seem to get it to work.
One last try:
www.nytimes.com/2020/09/22/books/review/our-bodies-their-battlefields-christina-lamb.html?smid=url-share

Apologies, mb76 - I mentioned the liberation of Berlin more as a 'what soldiers are capable of' rather than as a judgement on Russia or their soldiers. And, as Channel rightly points out, this is sadly something universal, across many centuries, wars and nationalities.. the British are certainly far from squeaky clean here, particularly with regards to German women during WWII. It's like, as mentioned in the piece I linked, women and girls are spoils of war - utterly shameful!

@SanFranBear that’s all right, no offence taken. I think what the Red army did was “revenge violence”, utterly horrific and not just to the women and girls in Germany, but also on route to Germany. I’ve heard this from people from Poland and Czechoslovakia whose grandmothers had told them. We certainly never learned about this side of “victory” in our history books at the time 😞

@ChannelLightVessel you are most welcome! For years and years when I was a child I used to take a tram to go to my swimming lessons and one of the stops was Bagration Street - I never knew who he was then, or why there was a street named after him, and it is quite an exotic name to a Russian speaker.

The bit where the Colonel (I think) says that there are no casualties worth mentioning, just two wounded and one dead in his tracks and relishes the "dead in his tracks" is pretty sinister. It reminded me a bit of the end of All Quiet on the Western Front* too. War is hell anyway but it's infinitely worse when you are led by idiots who don't care about you at all.*

I'd agree that the two chapters we've just read on the bridge (I haven't read today's yet) were impressively vivid and moving. You got both the big picture and the tiny human details.

I am also finding it much harder to keep straight as to who's who, which regiment is which, what all the ranks and other descriptions mean. I have googled "junker" and still feel confused.

The bit where the Colonel (I think) says that there are no casualties worth mentioning, just two wounded and one dead in his tracks and relishes the "dead in his tracks" is pretty sinister
This was translated as "knocked-out" in my version and I was initially unsure if he was just unconscious.

Chapter 9. The cool reception by the Austrian minister of war was quite a let-down for Andrey in today's chapter. The glorious victory against Mortimer was written off as a disaster, which rankles with him. '(He) left the palace with the feeling that all the excitement and pleasure that had been his following the victory had now drained away into the uncaring hands of the minister...'

I have managed to fall a few chapters behind - not sure when or how, but plan to catch up on reading the book and the thread this evening. Had forgotten how much I liked the War sections when I first read this, which I wasn't expecting.

So far I've enjoyed the War section much more than Peace, Pepe (and I'm definitely going to have to read Anna Karenina for the farming content at some point)

Hahaha, @Sadik I really don't feel the farming is on a par with the war, mostly because it is narrated by Levin.

I am also enjoying the war parts, but I did last time too. I enjoyed this chapter and seeing Prince Andrei again and the diplomacy (or lack of it).

It's definitely interesting seeing the difference between Andrey in the army vs when he's in society. Even today it seems like being within 10 feet of another posh person puts him into a massive nark, but with the wounded men he was concerned and generous.

PepeLePew I've also fallen behind slightly, am blaming uni which started back this week! Should catch back up quickly as the chapters aren't overly long.

I've bought the DVD of the BBC adaptation and see its six episodes long. Might put it on tomorrow and watch it up until near the start of the war section (maybe half an episode?). I did watch it on its release 6 years ago but can't remember the timeline of episodes...

Within 10 feet of another posh person puts him into a massive nark, but with the wounded men he was concerned and generous

This made me smile, Mama. I think he was only generous because he saw himself as better than the wounded, regular soldiers but, I guess his status and treatment since birth has emphasised that so can't blame him. And he was extraordinarily generous - three gold coins is probably worth a fair bit even today!

I guess the fact one small battle was won after days and days of retreat and including the loss of an obviously well respected General - I think Andrey was expecting a bit much. Not sure I particularly like him, really.

And I enjoyed the War parts of the book a lot first read through... this time though I'm trying to take a slight leaf out of Tolstoys book and am using Google Maps & Earth to look at the locations.. interestingly, if you Google Earth Melk, the last major place it says the army were at, and look at Melk Abbey, move the camera around and there is a wonderful show of the landscape with the Danube flowing past! Melk Abbey
maps.app.goo.gl/YzK9XRq9UHXvJdk46

Obviously, it will have changed immeasurably but it is lush and green and very Austrian! Not sure why I pictured barren landscape at all

@SanFranBear I really enjoyed that Google maps link. Thank you. Gave me an idea of what Nikolai was looking at whilst being bombed.

No mention at all of their loves Sonya, Lise, the baby…

That is a fab idea @SanFranBear, thank you. It oddly looks quite like I imagined, with slightly less trees.

I feel like Tolstoy keeps both parts of the story very separate.

@SanFranBear I loved that map - thanks! Also agree re Andrey, I'm not sure I like him either.

That's incredibly cool SanFranBear! Great idea, thank you!
It's also quite like how I imagined it.

Chapter 10. Andrey meets the suave diplomat, Bilibin who brings him up to date on the state of affairs in Vienna. Andrey is surprised to hear that the French have invaded the city. Bilibin also puts the recent victory in context and why it wasn't well received by the minister. He suggests that there may be negotiations with France in the offing and plans for a peace treaty. Andrey doesn't take that news well 'That would be too vile for words.' He retires to one of Bilibin's comfortable guest bedrooms and dreams happily of being in battle.

I thought Bilbin was am interesting character although couldn't quite picture all his wrinkles as he seemed quite young? He'd been a diplomat since he was 16! What a different world. Andrey seems much happier amongst the men than in the saloons of Moscow and St Petersberg.

Chapter 11. Andrey goes meeting and greeting. Bilibin brings him to his inner circle of chums who talk briefly about the war out of politeness, but who quickly slip back into jokes and gossip. Prince Hippolyte is there, sprawled in their midst, boasting of his prowess with women. Andrey recognises his jealous feelings over Hippolyte's interactions with Lise. I'm glad to see he feels something for her! Hippolyte is still not making much sense, but the company seem to find him hilarious, although it appears that he is the butt of their jokes.

I agree with Stokey that Andrey doesn't seem at ease with these gentlemen. He is happier with his regiment. He goes off to get ready to meet the Emperor, which according to Bilibin, will be an underwhelming experience. 'He's a great holder of audiences, but he doesn't like talking. In fact, he can't talk at all. You'll see for yourself'.

It was good to see a flash of peacetime with the appearance of strange Prince Hippolyte. He must be an absolute stunner/charmer to be so attractive to women without being able to string a sentence together. I thought it was interesting that he commanded no respect from his comrades and in fact, the total opposite. From things like the forced laughter, I presume he knows?

Prince Hippolyte. He must be an absolute stunner/charmer to be so attractive to women I imagine him as a bit effeminate or even pretentious with his lorgnette.

Do you think its another way of his comrades ribbing him, then? As in, he's actually hopeless with women?

I wonder - he seemed to be quite successful with our little squirrel, even to the point of getting Andrey all Or perhaps, in high Russian society, he was very different from most of the men and therefore, women were drawn to him? Whichever, its a mystery to me from what little we've seen/heard from him!