War and Peace Readalong thread 2022

[VikingNorthUtsire]

Interest thread for the 2022 War and Peace readalong

THIS OP WAS UPDATED on 4/1 BY MNHQ (THANK YOU) TO ADD MORE DETAIL TO THE READING SCHEDULE AND UPDATE THE AMAZON LINKS

"The finest novel ever written on this planet"
"Here is a novel that is worth whatever time one gives to it. There is more life between its cover than in any other existent fictional narrative"

This is a really helpful blog post by someone who has done the challenge: nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/announcing-the-2020-war-and-peace-chapter-a-day-read-along

1. Translations

The main complication seems to be which edition to choose. The blog post above contains some commentary of the different tranlsations that are available and their merits. There's also a pretty comprehensive guide here including samples from some of the best-known translations: welovetranslations.com/2021/08/31/whats-the-best-translation-of-war-and-peace-by-tolstoy/

The main differences that I can see are:

• some editions (including the free download on Project Gutenburg) have a different chapter structure. I think/hope we would manage to find one another if some are reading versions with more or fewer chapters but I have based the readalong on the versions with 361 chapters.

• there's quite a lot of French in at least some parts of the book. Some editions translate it into English, others keep it in French but use footnotes

• some translators have chosen to anglicise the characters' names. I guess its personal preference whether you prefer Mary, Andrew and Basil or a more Russian version.

Looking at the editions recommended and reviewed in the above blog:

The Vintage Classics edition, translated by Pevear and Volokhonsky: ]]

NB also this link for the kindle version: ]]

The Signet Classics edition, translated by Anne Dunnigan: ]]

The Penguin Classics edition, translated by Anthony Briggs: ]]

As a general rule I would definitely recommend downloading a sample of any kindle edition before buying, so you can be sure that you are happy with it.

Obviously, some people will prefer to avoid Amazon! Feel free to use the weeks in the run-up to Day 1 to share any tips on what you are buying and where from. Can I suggest though that we stick where possible to the editions with 361 chapters otherwise we will all get very confused!

1. Reading timeline

Nick, of the blog post, has very helpfully done the calculations for which chapters fall on which days, except he did it in 2020 which was a Leap Year. So feel free to take a look at nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Nicks-2020-War-and-Peace-Chapter-a-Day-Reading-Schedule.pdf but see below the schedule for the Mumsnet Readalong.

Again, different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

Phew!

I would suggest that we meet at the end of each section (so 17 times over the course of the year) to discuss what we've read, but with (non-spoilerish) chatter welcome at any time in between. According to my guru, Nick, each chapter is around 4 pages long, so it should be do-able.

1. Chapter "meditations"

This looks like another really interesting blog post from someone who has done it, with thoughts and meditations on each chapter: brianedenton.medium.com/a-year-of-war-and-peace-cc66540d9619#.yabefbbgz

Come and join me! This time next year we will almost have finished reading the finest novel ever written on the planet.

PS Some may feel that each day off deserves a shot of vodka or two. I couldn't possibly comment.

I was thinking the same, ChessieFL. That sounded like potential money troubles alright.

Welcome to the thread, Sewingfanatic.
Desdemona's entertaining chapter summaries will bring you up to speed in no time

@StColumbofNavron – I'm sure you (and Briggs) are quite correct, I suppose I was thinking of the word 'serf' not in the literal sense but more generally as a reflection on the servant class and how they were seen.

The different translations are fascinating and illustrate how hard it is to actually extrapolate characters' moods and the meanings behind the dialogue!

@ChessieFL Yes, I don't know but I suspect we will be finding out more about how secure the Rostov riches actually are.

Thank you VikingNorthUtsire for starting this! I found this thread this morning & immediately bought the Penguin (Briggs) version on Kindle. I'm well up for the challenge! Will be attempting to read 16 chapters over the weekend. Have just checked my Kindle & it's only 68 chapters

Welcome Sewingfanatic and Spongebob, it should be really easy to catch up as the chapters are so short.
I think there's definitely a hint there Fuzzy that Mitenka has concerns about spending. Also a hint of bad temper from Count Rostov which seems out of character.

I should say I have no idea whatsoever about the plot of War and Peace, even at a very high level - for all I know it’s a well known part of the plot that the Rostovs end up broke. I’m actually enjoying not knowing anything at all about where the story is going/ which characters are going to end up important etc. I’m just taking each chapter as it comes!

That's interesting about the different translations, it just gives a different feel to the interaction.

I think there have been enough hints dropped that some money troubles seem to be on the way for the Rostovs.

I'm finding it hard not to read on. Think I may have to go through the party in one go.

There seem to be an awful lot of princes and princesses. Do we assume they are all siblings or children of the Tsar or was the term used more widely in Russia?

I think someone posted about this upthread Stokey but I can’t find it now - iirc they said that Prince/Princess in Russia is more equivalent to our Duke/Duchess titles so not all related to each other.

Yes, just aristocracy really.

Does anyone know if count/countess is more or less senior than Prince/Princess in Russian aristocracy? Just trying to to work out the relative positions of some of the characters.

Anna Pavlovna hasn’t been granted any title by Tolstoy as far as I can tell, but she has a place at Court as lady in waiting to the Empress. Prince Vasily has the ear of the Tsar in order to carry out Anna M.’s request.

That said, Wikipedia (not my usual go to for historical accuracy but this makes sense). But Count Bezukhov is significantly wealthier and the Prince and Princesses are coming to him.

Overall, my impression from this and Anna Karenina is that there isn’t a great deal of difference. I don’t see any deference to a Prince from a Count or marriages blocked because someone is a Princess and the groom a Count.

I think it’s fluid.

Chapter 15:
Finally the party!
It seems a party at the Rostov’s bears a striking resemblance to a Year 6 disco, with all the boys on one side of the room and all the girls on the other.
The Countess is in the drawing room with her daughters and guests whilst the Count has taken the gentleman off to the study to see his collection of Turkish pipes. (Every home should have one.) In his smoke filled room Count Rostov is talking to Vera’s self obsessed beau, Berg and his wife’s cousin Shinshin. The talk is of war because finally, it’s official, Russia have declared war on France.

Pierre has arrived and doesn’t seem to have learnt any social graces since Anna Pavlovnas soirée, he’s plonked himself down in a chair blocking everyone’s way and is answering monosyllabically when the Countess and Anna Mikhaylovna try to engage him in conversation.

Eventually the guest of honour arrives, “Marya Dmitriyevna Akhrosimov, known in society as ‘the dreaded dragon’, and celebrated not for wealth or rank, but for her sharp wit and plain speaking.”
True to form she tears Pierre off a strip for his St Petersburg bear stunt and refers to Natasha, who she is obviously fond of, as a ‘little Cossack’ - basically inferring that she is wild and savage. (Or to quote Dick Emery: ‘Oooh you are awful … but I like you!’)

They all go into dinner, a lavish affair, of many courses and wonderful wine pairings, the Count and Countess are at opposite ends of the table with their respective male and female guests of honour, they are king and queen of all they survey, the hosts with the mosts:
“The count peeped over the glittering glassware, the decanters and fruit-dishes, looking at his wife with her tall cap and its blue ribbons, and generously poured out wine for his neighbours, not forgetting himself.”

In the middle of the table are the youngsters, Vera next to Berg, Nikolai next to Julie Karagin - much to Sonya’s distress, Pierre next to his new friend Boris and “Natasha, sitting opposite, gazed at Boris as girls of thirteen gaze at a boy they have just kissed for the first time, and with whom they are in love. Sometimes this same gaze found its way to Pierre.”
Pierre eats and drinks everything that is put in front of him and looks around with increasing alcohol induced benevolence at all the faces that new BFF Boris has helpfully put names to.

I found the description of Berg interesting in this chapter. Tolstoy starts off mocking him, and you're waiting for Shinshin to make some witty comment, but then all the society spectators are won over by his sincerity. The German tutor was funny.

Yes, the description of the German tutor was funny. The feast sounded lavish, though I would give the turtle soup a miss!

These days he'd have been instagramming every course with the four engraved cut glass glasses arranged to catch the light!

Ha ha! True

Thank you @DesdamonasHandkerchief for your chapter summaries. They are very helpful in clarifying when there is something I am unsure of whilst reading. Loving the book so far (I don't think I would have attempted it without this thread!)

Right - I'm back after reading too quickly and getting ahead early on. I got up to Ch 15, so I'm jumping back in now! Thanks for the summaries - they've refreshed my memory!

DesdamonasHandkerchief thanks do much for your summaries, they've definitely helped with keeping track of who's who. Enjoying the book so far and hoping the war chapters won't be too much of a slog as they're only a few pages long.

Thanks for the thanks guys

This chapter was a bit of an epic by W&P standards. I found the male / female segregation a bit odd. I knew they did that kind of thing after dinner but didn't realise they were at opposite ends of the table for dinner.

Poor Pierre getting told off in front of everyone, I wonder if that had something to do with him hitting the booze at dinner.

Maybe the table thing is unusual or Russian! In other 19th c lit usually men and women are strategically placed, the men lead the women to dinner and sit beside that and make polite chit chat. Rostov is a bit more bohemian and eccentric I think so perhaps he doesn’t care for such formalities, particularly as this wasn’t a formal dinner as such with formal invitations. It’s an extension of the name day celebrations where he simply told anyone who visited to come back for dinner.

For chapter 13, my copy (V&P translation) makes it clear Boris isn’t sincere in his interaction with Pierre, it uses the word “mocking” twice:
”You are mistaken,” Boris said unhurriedly with a bold and slightly mocking smile.
”Here in Moscow we’re more taken up with dinners and gossip than with politics,” he said in his calm, mocking tone.
I did find it confusing reading it two days ago, because without those two instances of the word, I found Boris’s actions and words respectful and deferential. I loved the “rather long silence” Boris created for Pierre to feel awkward, I can just imagine it.

Really surprised by those fond of Pierre, he’s super gross and inconsiderate of anyone he’s around! Gets wasted, his favourite pastime is paying for prostitutes, snarfles down food and wine and is awful company.

I don’t mind Tolstoy referring to the age of over 40s women, because of how I feel and look after having just one baby with modern healthcare… can’t imagine in the late 1700s having TWELVE with no healthcare, grief of losing children and trauma and gosh knows what else how different women who hadn’t been pregnant yet looked from people like Countess Rostov. However thanks to other posters here I am noticing he doesn’t describe the men as such. But with the men he’s ungenerous with their behaviour, so perhaps that’s the equivalent.

What did we make of this footnote? The dragon implied that Pierre’s dad slept with Catherine the Great to fast track up the court career hierarchy?

That's an interesting footnote BakeOff, it's not in my edition she just says:
"I was the only one who told your father the truth when he was in high favour" no footnote at all. But I can believe the implication that Count Bezukhov slept himself to the top given all the rumours around illegitimate children.
And you're absolutely right that Pierre has few redeeming features in the opening chapters of the book, trying not to be spoilery, he's one of the characters that has to go on 'a journey' and I suppose those of us who are fond of him come from a position of knowledge of his future development.

Chapter 16:
Down the men’s end of the table the talk of war is becoming more boisterous.
Shinshin believes Russia should stay out of a European war arguing that Napoleon has already brought Austria down ‘a peg or two’ and now it could be Russia’s turn. Whereas a German colonel present is vigorously defending the Emperor’s decision to get involved, quoting verbatim from the proclamation that the Russian Sovereign’s intention is to bring about ‘peace in Europe on a firm foundation’. He becomes very animated, thumping the table and declaring that Russian soldiers should be prepared to fight to the last drop of their blood, die for their emperor and think about things as little as possible!
Sounds like perfect cannon fodder material as perceived by the ruling classes.
One of the cannon fodder in attendance, Nikolai, gazes in admiration at the colonel during this speech and despite his youth and lowly military status is unable to stop himself bursting out:
“‘I’m in total agreement,’ Nikolay spluttered, turning his plate around and shifting his wine glasses with desperate determination, almost as if he was in dire danger at that very moment. ‘It is my conviction that the Russians must win, or die in the attempt,’ he said. The moment the words were out of his mouth he realized as everyone else did that they had been a little too fervent and bombastic for this occasion, and therefore slightly embarrassing.”

Julie isn’t embarrassed by his outburst however, she gushes over his fine words and bravery. Sonya however trembles and colours, no doubt all too aware of the dangers he is about to face.
Julie Karagin is taken with Nikolai and her image of him as a pretty, principled soldier boy whereas Sonya is deeply in love with him and has been for as long as she can remember. Tolstoy demonstrates the difference between the two girls depth of feelings by their reactions to his impassioned speech and their concern, or otherwise, over his imminent departure for the hussars.

As the noise level rises the redoubtable Marya Dmitriyevna basically tells all the men to pipe down at their end of the table, saying she has four sons in the army but she doesn’t go on about it, and anyway God may spare one man in battle whilst another dies in his bed. Which is quite patently one of the most ridiculous pieces of nonsense ever spoken given that the odds of dying on the battlefield must be somewhat higher than not waking up in the morning all things considered.

Natasha is dared by her little brother, Petya, to interrupt the animated adult conversation which she does by standing up and demanding to know what is for dessert, apparently a terrible breach of etiquette.
The countess does her usual performance parenting of seeming to be cross whilst actually revelling in how adorable and precocious her little daughter is and even Marya Dmitriyevna is charmed by Natasha. Seeing she’s got away with it the rest of the guests let out a collective held breath and smile and laugh at this enchanting little poppet! 🙄