War and Peace Readalong thread 2022

[VikingNorthUtsire]

Interest thread for the 2022 War and Peace readalong

THIS OP WAS UPDATED on 4/1 BY MNHQ (THANK YOU) TO ADD MORE DETAIL TO THE READING SCHEDULE AND UPDATE THE AMAZON LINKS

"The finest novel ever written on this planet"
"Here is a novel that is worth whatever time one gives to it. There is more life between its cover than in any other existent fictional narrative"

This is a really helpful blog post by someone who has done the challenge: nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/announcing-the-2020-war-and-peace-chapter-a-day-read-along

1. Translations

The main complication seems to be which edition to choose. The blog post above contains some commentary of the different tranlsations that are available and their merits. There's also a pretty comprehensive guide here including samples from some of the best-known translations: welovetranslations.com/2021/08/31/whats-the-best-translation-of-war-and-peace-by-tolstoy/

The main differences that I can see are:

• some editions (including the free download on Project Gutenburg) have a different chapter structure. I think/hope we would manage to find one another if some are reading versions with more or fewer chapters but I have based the readalong on the versions with 361 chapters.

• there's quite a lot of French in at least some parts of the book. Some editions translate it into English, others keep it in French but use footnotes

• some translators have chosen to anglicise the characters' names. I guess its personal preference whether you prefer Mary, Andrew and Basil or a more Russian version.

Looking at the editions recommended and reviewed in the above blog:

The Vintage Classics edition, translated by Pevear and Volokhonsky: ]]

NB also this link for the kindle version: ]]

The Signet Classics edition, translated by Anne Dunnigan: ]]

The Penguin Classics edition, translated by Anthony Briggs: ]]

As a general rule I would definitely recommend downloading a sample of any kindle edition before buying, so you can be sure that you are happy with it.

Obviously, some people will prefer to avoid Amazon! Feel free to use the weeks in the run-up to Day 1 to share any tips on what you are buying and where from. Can I suggest though that we stick where possible to the editions with 361 chapters otherwise we will all get very confused!

1. Reading timeline

Nick, of the blog post, has very helpfully done the calculations for which chapters fall on which days, except he did it in 2020 which was a Leap Year. So feel free to take a look at nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Nicks-2020-War-and-Peace-Chapter-a-Day-Reading-Schedule.pdf but see below the schedule for the Mumsnet Readalong.

Again, different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

Phew!

I would suggest that we meet at the end of each section (so 17 times over the course of the year) to discuss what we've read, but with (non-spoilerish) chatter welcome at any time in between. According to my guru, Nick, each chapter is around 4 pages long, so it should be do-able.

1. Chapter "meditations"

This looks like another really interesting blog post from someone who has done it, with thoughts and meditations on each chapter: brianedenton.medium.com/a-year-of-war-and-peace-cc66540d9619#.yabefbbgz

Come and join me! This time next year we will almost have finished reading the finest novel ever written on the planet.

PS Some may feel that each day off deserves a shot of vodka or two. I couldn't possibly comment.

@ChessieFL

Tolstoy really does have some odd descriptions of women, doesnt’t he?! We had the pregnant chipmunk, now we’ve got one Princess with (presumably) very short legs and a long body, and another who is made more beautiful by a mole on her lip. Is it just the translation do you think, or does Tolstoy really just not like women very much? I don’t recall any of these odd descriptions about any of the male characters.

I agree. It is very odd that he focuses on these small details. And only in women.

He does have a bit of a thing about Andrei's small white hands.

@Cornishblues

I’ve got Anna Karenina on the shelf but never got round to it! Would be good to tackle it next year if I make it through this.

I didn’t quite follow today’s conversation between Pierre and Boris. Pierre is on tenterhooks that Boris might come out with something embarrassing - what was that? Then Boris seems to convey something without spelling it out that comes as a revelation to Pierre. Is the news that Pierre is in the running for the inheritance but that the sharks are circling? Is that all news to Pierre or what have I missed?

Do you think he's worried that Boris is going to mention the fact that Pierre is illegitimate? Or maybe he just doesn't want Boris to reveal himself to be one of the circling vultures as Pierre has taken a shine to him 🤔

I read it as the latter. Pierre is feeling a bit insecure, he's in disgrace and not allowed to see his father. He is suspicious of Boris at first and possibly feels Boris is coming to laugh at him too. But Boris the consumate diplomat says just the right thing to put Pierre at his ease and turn himself to a much needed ally. Ironic if this smooth diplomat is who our noble PM is named after!

Anna Karenina is quite an easy read really, although I did skim the farming parts. Its a good story - don't think you'd need a year!

Yeah, I'd agree – I think Pierre starts on the back foot by not remembering who Boris is (and getting it amusingly and hopelessly wrong), then kind of blusters and bumbles his way through. Perhaps finding the whole talk about inheritance and wills a bit embarrassing.

Boris, though, is so self-assured despite his circumstances. I'm not of his motivations for what he says to Pierre. Maybe he recognises that getting Pierre on board as an ally could be beneficial to him (in a more clear-sighted way than Anna, who just seems set on trying to get a dying man to amend his will in her favour?).

I read Anna Karenina years ago and it is great (don't remember the farming chapters being offputting!). I'd agree it wouldn't take a year. I was going to suggest Proust next

Thanks all - really good points. Really enjoying the experience of reading along with you all.

I couldn't work a Boris out here. I haven't had a good impression of him so far but I found him quite sincere in this scene.

Also Tolstoy's descriptions of women are very odd!

I'm late to the chapter today. I think Pierre is just a bit immature and clueless, all the intrigue around the fortune etc is a little lost on him. He is illegitimate, so he likely doesn't covet it himself. Boris, I think, recognises his need for financial aid but has a little pride about him that makes him perhaps not wanting it to be seen that way. He clearly has no real interest in the war, that presumably now that he has a commission he will be off to fight, I did laugh when he said that Moscow is all about gossip and dinner parties. Hence, Anna does all the begging. There is also the fact that she clearly indulges him as her only child.

I mean Boris is painting a decent sort of guy picture at the moment. He tells Natasha she is too young for kissing and he is being pretty nice to Pierre.

I felt that Boris was faking the sincerity but I seem to be in the minority!

I sort of think Boris doesn’t care. He is just following instructions.

And Boris, with a great weight off his mind, having got himself out of an awkward situation and put somebody else into one, became perfectly pleasant again

I'm not quite sure I'm following what's going on here ..

Is Boris trying to come across as not coveting Pierre's father's fortune, but subtly implying that Pierre is hanging about hoping to inherit himself?

Chapter 14:
In which we find that BakeOffRewatch has the most accurate translation:

So it transpires that Countess Rostov was thinking she’d ask her husband to stump up the cash if Anna Mikhaylovna's visit to Count Bezukhov didn’t produce the goods.
Given Ilya’s spent 1000 roubles on drafting in a top chef (Taras) 500 roubles doesn’t seem too much of a stretch. And true to form his beloved wife asks for 500 roubles, he doesn’t ask what it’s for, ups the amount to 700
and immediately calls his personal secretary, Mitenka, who’s ‘worth his weight in gold’, to get her nice clean notes. (What a prince among men, stick that where the sun don’t shine Vasily!)
Mind you he does affectionately say “My sweet little countess, everyone knows you’re a shocking spendthrift” when all the evidence so far would suggest that it’s the count who is spending money like it's going out of fashion and it's the countess who is concerned about her husbands extravagances, but hey ho, whatever.
When Anna Mikhaylovna returns, with the news that Count Bezukhov is now so close to death she was unable to converse with him, Countess Rostov gives her the money and they embrace weeping:
“They wept for their friendship, their kind-heartedness and the unfortunate need for lifelong friends to soil their hands with anything as sordid as money, and they wept also for their lost youth”

Of course they did, they’re women in their 40's, so obviously Tolstoy needs to draw our attention to just how bloody old they are!

I got that so wrong about the countess! Not at all stingy, but kind and generous to her friend.
'They wept also for their lost youth'. Life did not begin at forty in those times then

@rifling

I felt that Boris was faking the sincerity but I seem to be in the minority!

I'm with you, I think because he was so smugly ready to let Pierre struggle to recognise him and embarrass himself. Boris didn't start that encounter in an open.oe honest manner.

What struck me about chapter 14 was the line "The countess, grief-striken by her friend's demeaning poverty, was not feeling herself, and that always made her say 'you girl!' or 'you there!' to the servants."

The irony in this is quite delicious: the countess's worry about Anna, who has status and isn't exactly on the breadline, making her rude to the indentured staff (Briggs actually refers to the chef as a 'serf' in his footnote).

@musicmaiden I might have my dates slightly wrong but I don’t think serfs were emancipated in Russia until 1861, certainly post Napoleonic wars anyway so technically I think the servants are serfs (I think). I’ve never thought of it outside a rural context, but I think that’s right. Happy to be corrected.

Funny you should mention that comment about 'you girl' 'you there' musicmaiden because that bit stuck out to me on both readings as the clunkiest bit of translation in the book. I didn't understand why it isn't translated along the lines of '... that always made her speak too sharply to the servants, taking her grief out on them'. Is there a code amongst translators that means you have to stick as closely to the writers words as possible even if the English that results isn't great?

Good question. It sounds clunky, but perhaps it illustrates the countess's rudeness more clearly?

Interestingly my copy's translation of that section is rather different:

‘What is the matter with you, my dear?’ she said crossly to the maid who kept her waiting some minutes. ‘Don’t you wish to serve me? Then I’ll find you another place.’ The countess was upset by her friend’s sorrow and humiliating poverty, and was therefore out of sorts, a state of mind which with her always found expression in calling her maid ‘my dear’ and speaking to her with exaggerated politeness.

That is very different!

That’s interesting - my copy has her speaking ‘crossly’ and ‘calling her maid ‘my dear’ and speaking with exaggerated politeness’ because she’s out of sorts. I guess different translations take different approaches to the trade off between literal translation /elegance of English but it feels here like at least one has departed from the original sense(s).

Sorry for cross-post got distracted after starting typing! Mine and FourSeasons are Maude which has apparently been criticised for ‘improving on’/taking liberties with the text so perhaps this is an example?

My version is very similar to FourSeasons although not quite identical.

I might be reading too much into it, but might Count Rostov have money problems? When he asks his man Mitenka to bring him the cash, Mitenka seems to be trying to say something and then decides not to:

‘When does Your Excellency require them?’ asked Mitenka. ‘I am obliged to inform you that - However, don’t worry,’ he added, observing that the Count was beginning to breathe rapidly and heavily, which was always a sign of impending anger. ‘It just slipped my mind that - Do you wish to have it brought at once?’

I wonder what it is he’s not saying?!

I'm joining in a bit late but this is my chance to read a book that's been languishing on a bookshelf for years. I'll be trying to catch up over the weekend .