War and Peace Readalong thread 2022

[VikingNorthUtsire]

Interest thread for the 2022 War and Peace readalong

THIS OP WAS UPDATED on 4/1 BY MNHQ (THANK YOU) TO ADD MORE DETAIL TO THE READING SCHEDULE AND UPDATE THE AMAZON LINKS

"The finest novel ever written on this planet"
"Here is a novel that is worth whatever time one gives to it. There is more life between its cover than in any other existent fictional narrative"

This is a really helpful blog post by someone who has done the challenge: nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/announcing-the-2020-war-and-peace-chapter-a-day-read-along

1. Translations

The main complication seems to be which edition to choose. The blog post above contains some commentary of the different tranlsations that are available and their merits. There's also a pretty comprehensive guide here including samples from some of the best-known translations: welovetranslations.com/2021/08/31/whats-the-best-translation-of-war-and-peace-by-tolstoy/

The main differences that I can see are:

• some editions (including the free download on Project Gutenburg) have a different chapter structure. I think/hope we would manage to find one another if some are reading versions with more or fewer chapters but I have based the readalong on the versions with 361 chapters.

• there's quite a lot of French in at least some parts of the book. Some editions translate it into English, others keep it in French but use footnotes

• some translators have chosen to anglicise the characters' names. I guess its personal preference whether you prefer Mary, Andrew and Basil or a more Russian version.

Looking at the editions recommended and reviewed in the above blog:

The Vintage Classics edition, translated by Pevear and Volokhonsky: ]]

NB also this link for the kindle version: ]]

The Signet Classics edition, translated by Anne Dunnigan: ]]

The Penguin Classics edition, translated by Anthony Briggs: ]]

As a general rule I would definitely recommend downloading a sample of any kindle edition before buying, so you can be sure that you are happy with it.

Obviously, some people will prefer to avoid Amazon! Feel free to use the weeks in the run-up to Day 1 to share any tips on what you are buying and where from. Can I suggest though that we stick where possible to the editions with 361 chapters otherwise we will all get very confused!

1. Reading timeline

Nick, of the blog post, has very helpfully done the calculations for which chapters fall on which days, except he did it in 2020 which was a Leap Year. So feel free to take a look at nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Nicks-2020-War-and-Peace-Chapter-a-Day-Reading-Schedule.pdf but see below the schedule for the Mumsnet Readalong.

Again, different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

Phew!

I would suggest that we meet at the end of each section (so 17 times over the course of the year) to discuss what we've read, but with (non-spoilerish) chatter welcome at any time in between. According to my guru, Nick, each chapter is around 4 pages long, so it should be do-able.

1. Chapter "meditations"

This looks like another really interesting blog post from someone who has done it, with thoughts and meditations on each chapter: brianedenton.medium.com/a-year-of-war-and-peace-cc66540d9619#.yabefbbgz

Come and join me! This time next year we will almost have finished reading the finest novel ever written on the planet.

PS Some may feel that each day off deserves a shot of vodka or two. I couldn't possibly comment.

Thank you for résumés one and two, Desdemona! I enjoyed them immensely.

Yes, that's where I thought they were going nod nod wink wink

Desdemona, you’ve excelled yourself! It’s the bear I feel sorry for. I hope it eats someone in the next chapter; not the long-suffering servants or the women in the brothel, of course.

It’s like it wasn’t enough, the readers won’t get it .. cards, alcohol, wagers and women … oh I know, a Bear!

🤣 I know the bear gets to me too and I have a sneaking suspicion things are only going to get worse for it. Taps nose knowingly

Loving the summaries @DesdamonasHandkerchief. Really helping me keep track of who's who.

Gosh that scene between the Bollockskis Bolkonskys was just brutal wasn't it?

@VikingNorthUtsire

Gosh that scene between the Bollockskis Bolkonskys was just brutal wasn't it?

It was awful. I think I was cringing as much as Pierre. Andrey needs to stop being such a big misogynistic ding, especially to his pregnant wife!

I'm still holding onto my Pierre love, even though his drunken buffoonery and brothel creeping is testing my devotion.

That bear definitely needs to be dishing out some slaps.

Can't wait for tomorrow. So very tempted to read ahead but I honestly think the chat and the pacing is part of why I'm enjoying it so much.

Thanks Minerva, I'm glad my witterings are helping!
Apologies to anyone who feels like my obsessive recapping is dominating the thread, but I figure they're easy to skip if it's not your bag.

I agree it's really brutal the way Andrei treats Lise in that scene, it's difficult to imagine him ever loving her.
I also adore Pierre but he is a bit of a dick in this section and I do always wonder in these historical novels, where prostitution seems commonplace, what STD's are being taken home to dutiful wives and future wives.
At least Lise doesn't need to worry about that, I can't see Andrei frequenting the brothels, his disdain for woman seems pretty universal!

Chapter 7:
In which we find out what harm one final hit of wine, women and song actually can do!

We have jumped forward a few weeks and geographically we’ve left the glamour and glitz of St Petersburg for Moscow.

Princess Drubetskoy (aka Anna Mikhaylovna) has got her hearts desire, sort of, son Boris has a nice safe posting as an ensign with the Semyonovskyn Guards thanks to Prince Vasily’s influence. But despite, it is implied, her continual nagging he is not yet an aide to General Kutuzov.
Anna Mikhaylovna decamped to Moscow, shortly after she bent Vasily’s ear at Anna P.‘s soirée, as she and Boris usually live with her rich and generous relatives the Rostovs.
The Rostovs are having an elaborate Saints name-day celebration (a sort of mini birthday) for Countess Rostov and one of their daughters, who are both named after St Natalya.
These guys are seriously loaded, they live in a huge mansion on the best street in Moscow and a constant stream of well to do visitors are being welcomed by the ‘hail fellow well met’ Count Rostov. (And I know I shouldn’t keep banging on about the BBC adaptation but wasn’t Adrian Edmondson perfect in this role? A total revelation.) He invites everyone who drops in to come back for dinner, whilst his poor worn out 45 year old wife (What! 45! Good grief Tolstoy she’s obviously ready for the knackers yard) wearily greets all comers with a “slowness of movement and speech, deriving from physical weakness” caused by bearing twelve children. (And being so frickin’ old!)
The last visitor that Countess Rostov is prepared to entertain is Madame Marya Karagin and her daughter. (Not to be confused with the Kuragin’s - Anatole et al - Tolstoy certainly likes to keep his readers on their toes!)
Luckily for us Madam Karagin is an incorrigible old busybody and gossip and we now learn in quick order of the aftermath of Pierre’s, ‘what harm can one more party do?’ party.
Apparently The Naughty Boys Dolokhov, Anatole and Pierre set off in a carriage, with the bear along for the ride, to visit some ‘actresses’. (Wink, wink, nudge, nudge as Fuzzy so rightly said.) Their drunken behaviour left a little to be desired and when challenged by a policeman they tied the poor man back to back with the bear and tossed them both into the river. The policeman survived the ordeal, just about, but there’s no mention of whether the bear lived to attend another night of 'fun' courtesy of the St Petersburg fast-and-loose set.

We further learn that Pierre’s father, Count Kirill Bezukhov, is still dangerously ill and his wayward son’s appalling behaviour might just finish him off.
In such disgrace is Pierre that he had to be taken out of St Petersburg under police guard and has been banished, would you credit it, to Moscow the home of the Rostovs.
Prince Vasily has done his usual social wheeler dealering and hushed up his own son’s involvement, but Anatole has also been sent away from St Petersburg.
Dolokhov, with no wealth or influence to shield him from the fall out, has been demoted from an officer to a rank and file soldier, and has surely suffered the worst fate of the three.

The good natured Count Rostov thinks the bear story is hilarious, the ladies are trying to appear shocked but actually can’t hide their amusement.
Madam Karagin however is doing the Russian turn of the century equivalent of the MN clutching of pearls and cats bum mouth saying:
“I hope no one will receive [Pierre Bezukhov] here, in spite of his wealth. They tried to introduce him to me. I refused point-blank. I have daughters.”

Countess Rostov is intrigued at the mention of Pierre’s wealth, surely he is illegitimate?
Anna Mikhaylovna, desperate to get in on the gossip and demonstrate her own knowledge, says that whilst Count Kirill Bezukhov has lost count of his illegitimate children Pierre has always been his favourite.
The word on the street is that the old Count may even cut out the direct heir to his whole estate - none other than the man we all know and love, winner of the father of the year award, Prince Vasily - in favour of naughty Pierre.
She casually goes on to mention that she is actually distantly related to Count Kirill and he is Boris’s godfather to boot. So it appears she has some skin in the game when it comes to this vast - forty thousand serf, millions of roubles - inheritance, and if we’ve learnt anything about Anna Mikhaylovna in the preceding chapters it’s that she’s not behind the door when it comes to trying to get a share of the action for herself and her adored son.
Her final nugget of information is that Prince Vasily is also in Moscow ostensibly for an ‘inspection’ but actually because he knows old Count Kirill Bezukhov is about to kick the bucket and he has a vested interest in being around when it happens.
The plot thickens ….

Honestly, Desdemona, I am finding your recaps very helpful! Making sure I've worked out who's who (the Karagin/Kuragin thing threw me!) and haven't missed anything. I can't imagine you'll have the stamina to keep them going all year though!

I was trying to work out what Tolstoy is trying to make us think of Pierre and Andrei in the last chapter. They both come across very badly, but he wants us to respect them (unlike the Kuragins).... My feeling is he wants is to see decent young men with potential but currently spoiled by their circumstances (boredom, privilege). But those of you who've read or seen this before may think differently.

Well, there are still 100s of pages. I think they might have a ‘journey’. Pierre is just youth and inexperience right now I think. Andrei is, I think, supposed to demonstrate the futility and baseness of the life that he and his fellow social elites live. It has no purpose and is frivolous. Lise loves and relishes in it, though we can all obviously see she is simply a product of her own circumstance so she now represents everything he thinks is wrong I suppose.

Thanks once again Desdemona. #Team Bear

Of the 12 children (I was knackered after one), Natasha is described as the ‘elder’ daughter. If there are only two daughters, I assume that either there’s a load of sons, or some of them haven’t survived?

I think in that time, even amongst the aristocracy infant mortality was high so the chances of the Count and Countess having 12 surviving children is very slim. @DesdamonasHandkerchief - I agree that Ade Edmondson was so good in the BBC series. Also I find your summaries helpful too, and as you say if people don't it's easy enough to skip. As long as you want to keep writing them I'll keep reading them 🙂

I think Pierre is just young and stupid, and a bit easily lead. Tolstoy has shown us some of his good qualities already, his concerns for Lise and how passionate he is, even if this is considered a bit gauche in society. Also the fact that he seems to be the only person in Russia that Andrey can even bring himself to look at without a sneer is indicative of his qualities.

I must admit the bear story did make me chuckle though.

The Rostovs definitely don't have 12 surviving children, I think they have four, two boys and two girls. Natasha has an older sister, Vera, who's a bit of a pill if memory serves me right, and is airbrushed out of the BBC adaptation (as is Hippolyte) So the Rostovs must have had a lot of tragedy in their lives.
As MamaNewtNewt said though infant mortality seemed to be par for the course at the time.
I definitely won't have the stamina to recap the war and philosophy chapters Viking, I feel like Tolstoy reels me in with this fantastic story and then when I'm completely hooked throws all his philosophical mumbo jumbo at me! Last time round a sped read through those chapters to get back to the characters I'd come to know and love, this time working through a chapter a day I'm hoping to have a bit more forbearance!

The plot thickens indeed! Thanks for the heads up on Karagin/Kuragin, Desdemona! I was getting mixed up, thinking they were the same name.

The line 'This is what modern education does for you!' made me smile. I agree, though. It seems that Pierre is immature and may grow out of his foolish pranks once he figures out what to do with himself. The poor bear though! Can bears even swim?!

They jump about in water to catch fish so I would think so. Tolstoy’s bear seemed to swim with the policeman on its back. It’s the hero really.

@StColumbofNavron

They jump about in water to catch fish so I would think so. Tolstoy’s bear seemed to swim with the policeman on its back. It’s the hero really.

Totally

@StColumbofNavron

They jump about in water to catch fish so I would think so. Tolstoy’s bear seemed to swim with the policeman on its back. It’s the hero really.

I am now imagining a re-telling of War and Peace from the perspective of the bear, like those versions of the nativity story told by a cow in the stable.

I would love that

The bear's getting a lot of love! at 'it's the hero really' and Fourseasons writing War and Peace fan fiction from the perspective of the bear 🤣

I’d read bear fan fiction.

The whole Karagin/ Kurigan names in chapter 7 had me confused just when I thought I was getting on top of the names!

I love the way we hear the story about the end of the boys night out in a drawing room full of ladies almost 500 miles away. At the moment this is better than a soap opera.

#Teambear here too. Thanks for the recap @DesdamonasHandkerchief. I totally thought the Karagins were ones and tunes same. I like Count Rostov, think I'd enjoy his lavish dinner party.

No one could complain of being overtaxed with their homework today. Possibly the shortest chapter in the book? I couldn’t find a definitive answer (Hopefully if we keep to our New Years resolution we’ll know by the end of the year!) I did however find something that said Volume 1 Chapter 6 (At home with the Bolkanski’s/Pierre’s visit to Anotole’s gambling party) is the longest chapter, and if that is the case then War & Peace in a year seems eminently doable!

Chapter 8:
In which we meet Natasha:
Another future mover and shaker enters stage right, thirteen year old Natasha Rostov. She bursts into the drawing room a bundle of energy and excitement, and frankly a bit of a PITA.
Behind her in the doorway are:
A student - Natasha’s brother, Nikolay, the Rostov’s oldest son.
A young guards officer - Boris, Anna Mikhaylovna’s son.
A 15 year old girl - Sonya, an impoverished niece of Count Rostov who the Rostovs are bringing up with their own children.
A fat little boy with rosy cheeks - Petya, the Rostov’s youngest son.

With Natasha’s theatrical entrance the Rostovs take part in a bit of performance parenting, whereby the father indulges his beautiful daughter whilst the mother ‘pretends’ to be firm and ‘pretends’ to be annoyed at her interrupting the adults, whilst secretly believing she is adorable and charming.

Let’s face it we’ve all been at that social event where the indulged child is allowed to dominate the adult conversation, and everyone has to pretend they’re terribly interested in what the precious little love has to say, and doesn’t mind in the least that the adult conversation has had to grind to a halt whilst those present listen to their rendition of a Disney song/ discuss their favourite dinosaur/ listen to them witter unintelligibly about ‘Mimi’, their favourite doll!
And so it is with Natasha who is convulsed with laughter and babbling something unintelligible about her doll, an attachment which frankly, at 13, should be a cause for concern I would have thought, but these were simpler times I’m guessing.
We see that Boris is already accomplished and smooth , he can converse with adults and children alike. Nikolay is a little less polished, tongue tied in adult company and slightly embarrassed.
Boris’s attempts to humour Natasha back fire however, and she feels he and her younger brother are mocking her. She makes as dramatic an exit as she did entrance, scooping up Mimi and rushing out of the room as fast as her legs will carry her.