War and Peace Readalong thread 2022

[VikingNorthUtsire]

Interest thread for the 2022 War and Peace readalong

THIS OP WAS UPDATED on 4/1 BY MNHQ (THANK YOU) TO ADD MORE DETAIL TO THE READING SCHEDULE AND UPDATE THE AMAZON LINKS

"The finest novel ever written on this planet"
"Here is a novel that is worth whatever time one gives to it. There is more life between its cover than in any other existent fictional narrative"

This is a really helpful blog post by someone who has done the challenge: nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/announcing-the-2020-war-and-peace-chapter-a-day-read-along

1. Translations

The main complication seems to be which edition to choose. The blog post above contains some commentary of the different tranlsations that are available and their merits. There's also a pretty comprehensive guide here including samples from some of the best-known translations: welovetranslations.com/2021/08/31/whats-the-best-translation-of-war-and-peace-by-tolstoy/

The main differences that I can see are:

• some editions (including the free download on Project Gutenburg) have a different chapter structure. I think/hope we would manage to find one another if some are reading versions with more or fewer chapters but I have based the readalong on the versions with 361 chapters.

• there's quite a lot of French in at least some parts of the book. Some editions translate it into English, others keep it in French but use footnotes

• some translators have chosen to anglicise the characters' names. I guess its personal preference whether you prefer Mary, Andrew and Basil or a more Russian version.

Looking at the editions recommended and reviewed in the above blog:

The Vintage Classics edition, translated by Pevear and Volokhonsky: ]]

NB also this link for the kindle version: ]]

The Signet Classics edition, translated by Anne Dunnigan: ]]

The Penguin Classics edition, translated by Anthony Briggs: ]]

As a general rule I would definitely recommend downloading a sample of any kindle edition before buying, so you can be sure that you are happy with it.

Obviously, some people will prefer to avoid Amazon! Feel free to use the weeks in the run-up to Day 1 to share any tips on what you are buying and where from. Can I suggest though that we stick where possible to the editions with 361 chapters otherwise we will all get very confused!

1. Reading timeline

Nick, of the blog post, has very helpfully done the calculations for which chapters fall on which days, except he did it in 2020 which was a Leap Year. So feel free to take a look at nicksenger.com/onecatholiclife/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Nicks-2020-War-and-Peace-Chapter-a-Day-Reading-Schedule.pdf but see below the schedule for the Mumsnet Readalong.

Again, different editions name and number their chapters differently - some refer to four books divided into parts (as below), others refer to fifteen books although it's essentially the same structure just with different numbering. Hopefully there's enough info below to keep us all in sync, and always happy to let anyone know via PM what's happening in today's chapter so we can keep together.

Book 1: 1805
Book 1 Part One (25 chapters): 1/1 - 25/1
Book 1 Part Two (21 chapters): 26/1 - 15/2
Book 1 Part Three (19 chapters): 16/2 - 6/3
DAY OFF: 7/3
Book 2: 1806-1812
Book 2 Part One (16 chapters): 8/3 - 23/3
Book 2 Part Two (21 chapters): 24/3 - 13/4
Book 2 Part Three (26 chapters): 14/4 - 9/5
Book 2 Part Four (13 chapters): 10/5 - 22/5
Book 2 Part Five (22 chapters): 23/5 - 13/6
DAY OFF: 14/6
Book 3: 1812
Book Three Part One (23 chapters): 15/6 - 7/7
Book Three Part Two (39 chapters): 8/7 - 15/8
Book Three Part Three (34 chapters): 16/8 - 18/9
DAY OFF: 19/9
Book 4: 1812-13
Book Four Part One (16 chapters): 20/9 - 5/10
Book Four Part Two (19 chapters): 6/10 - 24/10
Book Four Part Three (19 chapters): 25/10 - 12/11
Book Four Part Four (20 chapters): 13/11 - 2/12
DAY OFF: 3/12
Epilogue One 1812-20 (16 chapters): 3/12 - 19/12
Epilogue Two (12 chapters): 20/12 - 31/12

Phew!

I would suggest that we meet at the end of each section (so 17 times over the course of the year) to discuss what we've read, but with (non-spoilerish) chatter welcome at any time in between. According to my guru, Nick, each chapter is around 4 pages long, so it should be do-able.

1. Chapter "meditations"

This looks like another really interesting blog post from someone who has done it, with thoughts and meditations on each chapter: brianedenton.medium.com/a-year-of-war-and-peace-cc66540d9619#.yabefbbgz

Come and join me! This time next year we will almost have finished reading the finest novel ever written on the planet.

PS Some may feel that each day off deserves a shot of vodka or two. I couldn't possibly comment.

Hippolyte is so creepy. If I caught him staring at me through his lorgnette, he would get a jab of my embroidery needle!

I’m wondering if the only reason Lise is putting up with it, is a hope that seeing other men flirting with her will make Andrey pay her some attention.

@ChannelLightVessel

Hippolyte is so creepy. If I caught him staring at me through his lorgnette, he would get a jab of my embroidery needle!

I’m wondering if the only reason Lise is putting up with it, is a hope that seeing other men flirting with her will make Andrey pay her some attention.

Yes, that could be true!

My copy’s behind again, my chapter 5 seems to have been everyone else’s chapter 4!

@ChessieFL

My copy’s behind again, my chapter 5 seems to have been everyone else’s chapter 4!

How frustrating! What version have you got?

Andrei is definitely coming across as a bit of a git.

I’ve got the Maude translation.

Hi Chessie, did you get a chance to read the blog linked at the top of the OP? It explains that some versions including the Maude have different chapters, although I think the 15+2 overall sections are the same.

There are a few people reading along in other versions but I think most of us are on versions with 361 chapters. I can recommend the one I am on (£2 on Kindle) if you want to be in synch, otherwise I think we'll all end up in the same place (and probably be posting much less frequently once we all work out who's who )

Hi Viking - yes I saw the blog and realised that different editions have different chapters, but I was expecting everyone to be slightly out of step with each other and it seems to be just me out of step with everyone else! I’m happy to stick with my version now I’ve paid for it - and it’s quite helpful having everyone else’s interpretation before I read it as it points things out I might otherwise miss!

Wow, this thread is moving so fast already. Thank you Viking for all the brilliant resources, including the article about different translations, and thank you Desdemona for your witty summaries!

I had chosen the Briggs translation (Penguin) just because I already owned it, and I found the language of the first chapters to be very lively and readable, but it drove me crazy that the French bits weren't there (since I read French, and would quite like to read the French bits in French). So I switched to Pevear and Volokhonsky (Vintage Classics) today. My impression is that it's a slightly more literal translation than Briggs, but I don't mind that. My decision was slightly influenced by the fact that it was the only translation available in my local bookshop, ha. But it's a very good bookshop, and they usually stock the editions recommended for the uni students.

Also, the book itself is nicer to hold than the Penguin edition -- slightly larger print, and the pages turn easily. I'm still going to have to get used to holding up a thousand-page tome in bed though. Either that or take the plunge into Kindle, which I've never tried!

The women characters are interesting so far. I like the way the book starts out in medias res, and the amusing similes about Anna's party: how she keeps all the spindles moving, serves up famous guests like a joint of beef, etc.

I haven't made up my mind about Andrei yet. He certainly seems far more passionate about Pierre than about his wife. Maybe he's gay? And Ippolit is clearly a buffoon.

you’re not alone ChessieFL , there seem to be loads of flavours of Maude, I’m reading a different one to you and thought I was the only one totally out of step - where everyone else is is still mid chapter 1 for my edition! I think if you divide the number of pages in your book 1 by the number of days we’re reading it over it’s a fairly steady pace!?

I wouldn't care to have that weighty tome fall on my face as I nod off in bed, Cassandre

I had chosen the Briggs translation (Penguin) just because I already owned it, and I found the language of the first chapters to be very lively and readable, but it drove me crazy that the French bits weren't there (since I read French, and would quite like to read the French bits in French).

Same here, but I've decided to stick with the Briggs because I'm finding it very readable. I'm just at the end of Chapter 14.

@IsFuzzyBeagMise

I wouldn't care to have that weighty tome fall on my face as I nod off in bed, Cassandre

Yeah, I may acquire actual battle scars from reading War and Peace

crazyjing, I did like the style of Briggs. In fact my original plan today was to keep reading the Briggs translation, but keep the Pevear/Volokhonsky one alongside it in order to check whether I was missing any French. I soon realised that this would involve holding TWO thousand-page tomes up in bed, so was not physically practicable.

Cassandre

Totally agree about Andrei being depressed, either that or he’s just a miserable sod. I suspect I also cut the character some slack because of the association with James Norton (swoon!) and his clear affection for Pierre. I just love the character of Pierre, he may be a bear but he’s just a big, sweet teddy bear with no guile or artifice.

The BBC series really was superbly cast, I thought Paul Dano was amazing as was pretty much everyone.

BakeOffRewatch not a millennial but very close! May explain a few things though...
MamaNewtNewt it really was, wasn't it? Unfortunately it's not on iplayer, was looking forward to a rewatch.
I'm enjoying the chapters I've read so far, just hope it doesn't become more of a slog when we get to the war chapters.

I think the thread will slow down as a PP said so the exact breakdown will become less obvious I think. I am enjoying the 10 mins or so before my day starts reading each chapter. I do have an urge to read on but am not letting myself - helps that I am reading other things too so can’t really.

I think I need to read something else too, @StColumbofNavron - otherwise I'll keep getting ahead!

Chapter 6 done.

I CANNOT wait for today’s potted history. So much stupid!

Pierre has gone way down in my estimation.

If you want something else to read alongside your daily chapter, I recommend this:
www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B071N9ZG1V/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?tag=mumsnetforu03-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1641461290&sr=8-23
It's NOT a calendar (which is how Amazon has categorized it) but a collection of thoughts and quotes compiled and commented on by Tolstoy.

Thanks for your kind words cassandra & Fuzzy & StColumbo.
I've found the BBC War & Peace adaptation on an obscure tv channel called Alibi. Ive watched it before (three times I think) But because I don't want to get ahead of where we are in the book this time around I've only watched the first five minutes so far
Chapter 6 packs a lot in (a lot of stupid as Columbo says ) I'm splitting my verbosity into two parts! Mainly because I haven't tackled the end of the chapter yet!

Chapter 6, part 1:
At Home With The Bolkonskys:
Woah this is a seriously messed up marriage.
Andrei seems to find Lise’s company intolerable. Lise, painfully aware of this, is insecure and needy and the needier she becomes the less he can bear to be around her.
Lise begs Andrei to reconsider leaving her and St Petersburg for the army, Andrei becomes increasingly angry and impatient with her until she is reduced to tears and can only fearfully gaze at her husband “her face [wearing] the timid, apologetic look of a dog wagging its drooping tail quickly but without much confidence.”
(On a side note I’m gratified that, as well as the abused puppy imagery, Tolstoy describes Lise as ‘squirrel-like’ twice in this chapter. I was definitely on the right rodent lines with chipmunk.)
This distressing scene is all played out in front of Pierre who’s wishing the ground would swallow him up.
Eventually Lise, realising she’s getting nowhere with the “Don’t go to war, don’t send me away to the country to your mad dad and sad sister” schtick, makes her excuses, and leaves the boys to some serious bonding time.
Once they are alone Andrei pours his heart out to his good friend Pierre. (I am at a bit of a loss as to when Pierre and Andrei became so close given that we found out in the last chapter that Pierre’s been out of the country since he was 10, but maybe all will become clear.) Andrei embarks upon a seriously lengthy anti marriage rant, including but not limited to the following nuggets of wisdom:
“Never, never get married, my dear fellow, that’s my advice to you.”

“Marry when you’re old and good for nothing … Otherwise everything good and noble in you will be finished.”

“what wouldn’t I give now to be an unmarried man!”

“you tie yourself to a woman and you’ll lose all your freedom, like a convict in fetters. And all the hope and strength there is in you just drags you down and tortures you with regret. Drawing-rooms, gossip, balls, vanity, vacuous nonsense–that’s the vicious circle I’m stuck in.”

“If you only knew what these fine women are, or let’s say women in general! My father’s right. Selfish, vain, stupid, totally vacuous–that’s what women are when they show themselves in their true colours. You see them out in society, you think there might be something there, but no, there’s nothing, nothing. Don’t get married, my dear fellow, just don’t!’”

Sounds to me like Andrei is a teeny tiny bit misogynistic and possibly inherited it from Daddy dearest. Frankly Lise should be considering herself better off without him.

Rant over Andrei turns to Pierre and basically says ‘but enough about me what about you?’

I knew you would have a field day with this chapter, Desdemona

Chapter 6 Part 2
The St Petersburg Bullingdon Club:

After Andrei has bared his soul about his dysfunctional marriage and general feelings of hopelessness and misery he dismisses himself as ‘yesterday’s man’ and turning to Pierre says ‘Let’s talk about you.’
Pierre gazes in wonder at this man who he feels is the pinnacle of perfection, embodying all the attributes and wisdom he himself does not possess, sure he’s not big on philosophy and dreams, but Pierre has come to believe these traits of his are defects anyway.
It doesn’t seem to cross Pierre’s mind that any man that can dismiss all women as ‘Selfish, vain, stupid [and] totally vacuous’ may not embody the God like perfection he should strive to emulate!
Pierre refers to himself as a ‘bastard … no name, no fortune’ who is nevertheless doing okay. (And moreover it seems to me, enjoying his life a lot more than his ‘perfect’ friend.)
Andrei “looked at him with kindly eyes. But as he looked, for all his friendliness and kindness he knew his own superiority.”
From this lofty view point Andrei counsels Pierre to pick a career path and stop ‘knocking around’ with the Kuragin’s (Hippolyte, Anatole & Hélène, but particularly Anatole) whose debauched lifestyle is dragging him down.
“Can’t be helped, old man,’ [says] Pierre with a shrug. ‘Women, my dear fellow, women.”
This is obviously not an argument that is going to cut much slack with our friendly neighbourhood misogynist!
But Pierre has been thinking for some time he needs to mend his ways and suddenly declares:
“With this kind of life I can’t make any decisions, or think anything through. I’ve got a permanent headache and no money in my pocket. He’s invited me tonight, but I’m not going.’
‘Promise me you won’t go.’
‘I promise."

But of course Pierre does go, reasoning he made a promise to Anatole to attend before he promised Andrei that he wouldn’t, and anyway what harm can one final hit of wine, women and song do?
Inside Anatole’s pad the ‘gambling school’ is in full flow and it’s like a scene from Sodom and Gomorrah. A dozen drunken young men, a minesweeping servant and a poor chained bear cub. There’s shouting and laughter, a window is being removed from its casement so a foolhardy bet can be performed and at the centre of all there is the mercurial Dolokhov:
“A blue-eyed man of average height, conspicuously sober amidst the drunken uproar … This was Dolokhov, an officer in the Semyonov regiment, a notorious gambler and swaggering madcap, at present living with Anatole”
“Dolokhov was a man of few resources and no contacts. And yet somehow, despite the fact that Anatole doled out his money in tens of thousands, [he] … managed to present himself in such a way that Anatole himself and everybody who knew them admired Dolokhov more than Anatole. Dolokhov gambled on everything, and usually won. However much he drank, he always kept a clear head. Both of them, Kuragin and Dolokhov, were currently infamous figures among the fast-and-loose young men of Petersburg.”

Dolokhov wins his bet to drink a bottle of rum on a windowsill without holding on to anything, at considerable risk to life and limb. Anatole talks clumsy Pierre out of emulating the feat, promising they will go on to ‘you know where’, (Tolstoy obviously constrained by the times and not able to spell out that they’re off to a brothel) and they depart bear and all for a visit with the women of whom Pierre is so fond.