Can you always tell if a novel has been translated?

[BooteusMaximus]

Afternoon all
I cannot work out if I am overthinking. I am reading a sample of
The silence of the white city and cannot work out if it is the writing that is stilted or because I know it was originally written in Spanish.
It was a big hit there four years ago and I want to buy it for someone but they once complained about The Girl with the dragon tattoo because it was poorly translated. Can you always tell or am I being hypersensitive?
Anyone who fancies looking at the sample on Amazon (Eve Garcia Saenz) and letting me know if it's me or not would be appreciated
This is not a diss on translators either...it's a thankless task and requires a skillset I admire and don't have.

Oh and I never read the Stig Larsson myself, just watched the original film version with subtitles so that's not my critique. I have no idea whether it translated well into English or not.

Thanks in advance for any insights

bump

I think I have worked out what it is - the similes, good as they are, seem a bit clunky. It reminds me of when DD has an assignment checklist in English and puts in metaphors etc willy nilly.

Translations are sometimes better than the original.

Ooh, do you have an example?

Yeah, same. I know it's a hugely skilled task but I usually find them a bit flat.

Yes, it's stilted. Clunky. No rhythm in the phrases. I'm attributing that to the translation - as I don't know the original author's style and don't have enough Spanish for comparison.

I'd say one can tell with the majority of fiction in translation that the words have been wrenched from one language to another - usually by an absence of any discernible style or musicality in the translated version. But I read most of Elena Ferrante's Neapolitan Quartet in translation and was so completely swept up in the emotion of the work I didn't have time to stop and examine too much. It was exceptionally elegantly done.

With the book you've made me sample - not sure I'll bother reading further than the first few pages I looked at.

I haven't read Elena Ferrante but her books have been recommended to me before. Thanks for taking a look perdita (and sorry). Glad it's not just me. I made it through to the end of the sample but am not sure I can gift it. It seemed ideal with the setting and historical/geographical elements and has only been out for a short while...but is over a tenner and therefore might be seen by recipient as a waste if they can't get into it (or worse still, feel obliged to read it). Damn.

I know what you mean. When I read Stieg Larsson’s Girl books I kept thinking why is she being referred to as anorexic all the time when clearly she’s not, there’s no mention of her having any psychological issues around eating. She was really thin but ‘anorexic’ was definitely not the right word and I think that was down to poor translation.

@PerditaProvokesEnmity I loved the Neapolitan quartet and thought it was a hell of a translation. The only wee thing that bothered me (having studied Italian) was the translation of ‘rione’ to just ‘neighbourhood.’ It’s a pretty neutral word while if you’re talking about a ‘rione’ in Naples then it’s a clear reference to somewhere that’s poor and likely to have a lot of crime, definitely not the city centre or a pleasant suburb. I felt that the translator should have just left it as ‘rione.’ But God, she had a big job on her hands and she did it beautifully.

agent when I now get round to reading them I shall think neighbourhood = neopolitan hood It must be so tricky with nuances and vocabulary that is specific (e.g. Backpfeifengesicht in German....a face badly in need of a fist).

Personally, I did not notice any translation issues in the Girl with the Dragon Tatoo (series), although it is some years since I read them.
However, I have noticed in other fiction (translated from Italian), but it was only occassionally, some slight odd combinations of words.
Generally, I think this means the translator has tried to translate literally, without actually realising that maybe in the UK, we may use different expressions, etc
I guess this means a transalator has to be more than just a translator, and actually choose words, expressions that convery the meaning , style, and flow of the original, without it being a literal translation.
If you are conscious of the translation, then it is not very good.

I haven't had any problem getting into novels in translation. Most recently read 'The Memory Police' by Yoko Ogawa and it was incredible. I read a lot of South American literature for a while and I have Mexican friends who say we are very lucky in the UK to get such good translations and that they were really impressed with the Spanish to English translations they had read. I would assume the original wasn't that good if you are struggling to get into the novel, or you and the book aren't a great fit.

AgentCooper - "neighbourhood" was the one word I objected to! Unlike you, I assumed the translator was using an Americanism, rather than an English translation of the word - so that was why I found it jarring. Wasn't specifically certain but - feeling my way towards meaning - guessed that "neighbourhood" was somewhere between "Jenny from the block" and "the projects" in habitational class/ification. Not neutral. But not something we say in English english - whereas the rest was.

I'm reading the memory police right now-was a birthday gift., (so didn't read the rest of your post after it was mentioned in case Of spoilers!) I love Murakami & Ishiguro, and I've always thought the translators were great, but how would I know?!

It may be coincidence or it may be a cultural thing but so far all these authors have had most of their characters translated as lacking somewhat in emotion-a bit sterile. Maybe it's a translator problem, or maybe it's a language problem.

I think Ishiguro writes in English buckeejit

It's interesting that so many people rate the Neapolitan quartet highly. I really struggled to find the first book engaging and gave up on the others. I was disappointed as I expected to love them. At the time I felt the translation was probably the reason. I think I'm in a minority.

The Elena Ferrante books are one of those extremely rare instances of the screen adaptation being at least as good - and in some ways an ... improvement on the written original. And I came to the books via the TV series - so that may have helped.

I'd agree that the beginning of the first volume doesn't prompt immediate empathy - but I put that down to the portrayal of character, rather than a problem with the translation.

Buckeejit no spoilers! Ishiguro writes in English (he has lived in the UK since he was five). But I agree his writing has similarities to Japanese writers. I suspect the apparent passivity of the characters is a cultural thing.

As a country we read very little in translation (~4% of books published here are translated), but I think reading books from other countries is a great way to get an insight into different cultures. It's OK to not completely get everything and find it challenging.

I'm a translator Italian to English and yes, it's a bad translation. It's not at all natural. I'll show you what I could do with it even without the Spanish:

His translation: The TV crews were obsessed with hounding my oldest friends in the cuadrilla. They needed a headline and were convinced those closest to me could supply it. From the moment the news broke that the killer had shot me, reporters chased them all over Vitoria: from then on, nobody got any peace. Posted on their doorsteps at the crack of dawn. They lingered at Saburdi’s on Calle Dato for a few quiet tapas in the evening. At the time, no one felt like talking, and the unrelenting media presence didn’t help.
**
My translation: The TV reporters were obsessed with hassling my squad. They wanted a headline, and they were convinced that my buddies could give it to them. As soon as news got round that I'd been shot by the killer, they hounded those guys all over Vitoria. After that, nobody got a break.
At the crack of dawn, there they were, waiting outside the house. They'd be there again in the afternoon, as the guys met at Saburdi's in Calle Dato, trying to eat a little tapas in silence. Nobody felt like talking back then, and the unrelenting media presence certainly didn't help.*

And no, you can't always tell. The mark of a good translation is not knowing which is the original. A good translation requires a lot of twisting around of ideas , addition of words, a careful note of the tone of the original, an understanding of natural idiom in the two languages and above all, the confidence to change things that don't work in the target language. That's what separates a good translator from machine translation.

Not sure about all that "buddies" and "guys" stuff. I don't think anyone uses the word "buddies" ?

I chose to write it in the style of an American crime book. It's a choice. You're right, maybe the editor would ask for it in English without that slant. What I certainly wouldn't do is leave out verbs like this translator did by completely replicating the Spanish, thereby making the text unreadable. I think he also misunderstood the phrase about tapas. Mine is better and I spent all of five minutes on it unpaid.

That's really interesting Pluckedpencil and yes, it makes a huge difference.

Hello again
I read the sample for The Memory Police and enjoyed it very much thank you. I am going to buy that for me. It is 25 years old. That got me thinking that there may be amazing stories all over the world that still haven't been translated yet.
plucked I am in awe. That's amazing, truly. Yours is noticeably better, it flows. Thank you for doing that - it really showed the difference that choices make. As I said in my OP, I wasn't knocking translators as I cannot do it myself but the book (which I really really wanted to buy) felt 'off' to me. You have demonstrated why that is.

Okay people - so now I need a police procedural set in Spain. Any ideas? I wish the memory police would disappear birthdays!

As in, translated 25 years after originally published.