The Testaments by Margaret Atwood WITH spoilers

[Pokemontv]

Who is up for a discussion ? What did you like ? What did you hate ?

I think the reason Nicole went back to Gilead was because Aunt Lydia wanted to keep hedging her bets, keeping her options open right until the end of her long-game plan. Obviously it all went the way she'd planned, but if it had gone wrong, Aunt Lydia would have succeeded in returning Baby Nicole to Gilead, thus saving her own skin. Ultimately Aunt Lydia wanted to survive.

I think the "founding" aunts kept their real names and it was only the trainee aunts who had to adopt new names, like nuns.

Only read the books. Not watched the TV series but will now.
How long did Gilead actually last? I thought from what was said by the historians at the end of THT is was a couple of hundred years. But adding up the period the two books covered it must have been less than 30.
Anyone have an idea ?

Favourite part of Testaments for me was the banter between Judd and Aunt Lidia. Genius. I loved AL for it.

I thought from what was said by the historians at the end of THT is was a couple of hundred years. But adding up the period the two books covered it must have been less than 30.
I don't think it said two hundred years, I've just flicked through the end part of THT (the conference) and can't see any reference to time scale although the original instigators don't seem to have been replaced by people born in Gilead so I'm guessing about 20 or 25 years

The conference takes place in 2195, according to the original book?

The conference takes place in 2195, according to the original book? but I think it took place a long time after the fall of Gilead and do we know when Gilead started?

I first read The Handmaid's Tale about 25 years ago for A-level, and re-read it a couple of years ago and my impression was that Gilead lasted quite a long time.

I also annotated the copy I had for A level with a note that "Gilead moved beyond US borders", in reaction to what is written in the Historical Notes. It might have been my misinterpretation, but I think there's a sentence along the lines of Gilead re-drawing the world map???

That’s why I asked as I can’t remember why I believed the regime lasted a few hundred years. It was just a feeling I was left with.

In the historian section at the end of The testaments there is talk of a study of Giliad architecture. This also made me feel they must have been around a bit longer than the 30 or so first years that Giliad used the existing infrastructure.

Excuse spelling. Gilead .

There was an early, middle and late gilead period but I dont think it lasted as long as a century.

Did you think lydia shot judd in their final scene together? I interpreted it as a flash back and her knowing she had a bullet in her gun even though he said she didnt. But the handmaids tale wiki lists shunammite as a widow.

The sentence I mentioned above is: "this period well repays further study, responsible as it ultimately was for redrawing the map of the world, especially in this hemisphere". (And my A-level handwritten annotation "Gilead spread further than USA).

??? What do we think? Did Gilead (in The Handmaid's Tale) spread further than the USA?

There's also a mention of "Gileadean Civil Wars", again suggestive of a longer time period perhaps.

On the other hand: "The official records of the Sons of Jacob meetings were destroyed after the middle-period Great Purge, which discredited and liquidated a number of the original architects of Gilead"
which suggests that the middle-period of Gilead was within the life-span of the creators of Gilead.

As an aside, having just re-read the Historical Notes, I love that B. Frederick Judd (ie Commander Judd in The Testaments) was the other candidate for being Offred's Commander

Shake not shook. I too thought the final scene between Judd and AL contained a flash back about the earlier shootings and that AL didn’t shoot Judd.
Shunammaite was probably widowed eventually given how corrupt Judd was.
I also like to think AL would have preferred Judd to get his comeuppance rather than a quick exit.

In case it’s relevant, I have not watch the series yet.

I also like to think AL would have preferred Judd to get his comeuppance rather than a quick exit.

I agree, I think the reference to the loaded gun could be that she is metaphorically shooting him with a loaded gun by setting him up and playing the long game.

The handmaids tale wiki specifically says for that chapter that judd tells AL to kill Victoria and nicole so she quickly shoots him.

Originofspecies I dont think it expanded throughout the world, I would take that to mean because the USA was divided up and some states became independent it changed the world map.

I listened to the Audiobook version and really enjoyed it.

No where as thought provoking as THM, it seemed to shy away, and leave the horrors more implied, off stage. This could be as this stuff was the norm.

The audio works well with the different voices, bringing them to life. It's bbc book at bedtime this week. I'm not sure if they broadcast the whole book of just parts

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0008jyk

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It's bbc book at bedtime this week. I'm not sure if they broadcast the whole book of just parts
Having spent £9.99 on the Kindle version I'd be slightly peed off to find I could have had it for free straight away.

The unabridged audiobook is a little over 13 hours.

The BBC version is fifteen episodes at fourteen minutes each, so three and a half hours.

I think it’s fair to assume that it’s been pretty heavily abridged!

Just finished it and I would have enjoyed it more if it had not been in this format, now we knew from the start certain things that will happen, like that the girls will survive to tell their stories.

And getting Nicole back, not telling anybody but commander Judd and sending it away again did not make much sense for me either. Unless Lydia was really keeping all her options open.

I feel rather like @BIWI. The Handmaid's Tale is a classic book as a stand alone story and I feel it's been somewhat diluted by the second book (and of course the TV series). I watched season 1 and loved seeing the book brought to life so faithfully. I watched a bit of season 2 but in the end decided it was almost sensationalising violence towards women and so I didn't watch any more. One of the clever things about THT is how much is left unsaid, leaving the reader to imagine more. I don't really want all my questions answered and loose ends tied up. Aunt Lydia plotting Gilead's downfall did not feel realistic to me. Having said that, in the moment of reading, I really enjoyed The Testaments as a compelling but unchallenging read.

I haven't read the thread yet, but will right away.

I didn't enjoy The Testaments as I did THT. I also haven't watched the TV show, and I believe that may have had a disadvantage for me, apparently those who watched the TV show are more up to date with the characters(?)

Anyway, I thought it completely lacked nuance, instead of letting the reader see how women are treated and make the connection as to how they are worldwide, it's repeated and hammered into you. There's a lack of subtlety that is always there in THT.

I also had a few nitpicks. One being where it's stated to have in-laws who like the wife as otherwise they will always side with the man. It appeared to me Atwood completely forgot which world she was writing in, in Gilead, that's not an issue, of course the husbands parents will side with the husband, regardless.

I also do not feel the men would allow a woman, even Aunt Lydia, sole control of women and the rule, the women were their biggest commodity in their search to procreate, there's no way they wouldn't oversee every decision. They wouldn't allow one woman to assume complete command. It didn't feel accurate to the world of THT.

Then, for me, it was a bit of a plot hole that was created for THT.
The fact Baby Nicole was so well known worldwide, and she also was a big part in the destruction of Gilead, of course she would be well known, the fact she met up with Offred afterwards means that the end of THH makes zero sense to me, they would have easily have been able to know who Offred was after her children's escapes and reunification.

Another thing is, there's a less is more advantage with these kind of books, when your mind is allowed to fill in the blanks, it both puts you into the world and seems more threatening. The expansion of it at times made me roll my eyes.

I just finished this last night.

The girls' escape from Gilead felt very rushed and comparatively easy, even with the few complications added in (Nicole's infected arm, having to be put in the rowing boat) it never felt like they were actually in any peril.

It was all a bit 'meh'. I enjoyed it but it wasn't great, it lacked that sense of menace present in THT, and in places felt very paint by numbers. I guessed the Nicole/Agnes connection early on and hoped I was wrong, by the time it was revealed my reaction was "really?" rather than "oh my God!".

MazDazzle
I agree with your post of 17th September 19.55
It all seems a bit rushed.
I haven't finished it yet.
What age is Nicole in it and what age is Agnes ? Is Agnes Hannah ?
I never read THT but watched the series. How many years are between Hannah and Nicole ?

Could someone tell me the age difference between Hannah and Nicole, please.