The Testaments by Margaret Atwood WITH spoilers

[Pokemontv]

Who is up for a discussion ? What did you like ? What did you hate ?

The Testaments is going to be serialised next week on Radio 4. I think as book at bedtime (but was only half awake).

Well...
Overall I'm satisfied. I also felt that the dread was somewhat lacking. The experience of Nicole in gilead was treated quite hastily and the 'easy' way that Agnès became an aunt seemed implausible. Becca was clearly unsuited for wifehood but Agnès mostly didn't want to marry Judd. Although I guess Lydia wanted her as an aunt which may be why she proposed judd in the first place.
I suppose it was plausible that Nicole would have been in becca and agnes' keeping as a pearl or whatever but that seemed all a bit too easy.
However, the journey out of gilead was full of threat and I was very happy to see that June was reunited with her daughters. Shed a tear then.
I also liked the bit at the symposium where the professor acknowledges his sexist jokes at the last one and it's clear he's been called out on it!

Ok, thanks Peace and Fair .

It's on my Christmas list I shall reread my well-thumbed copy of THT again in preparation.

Although I guess Lydia wanted her as an aunt which may be why she proposed judd in the first place.

I would guess a big part of that was knowing whose daughter she was and already having Agnes as part of her plan.

I’ve just finished this. I liked it but it wasn’t anywhere near as good as the Handmaid’s Tale. It came across a bit as fan-fiction based on the telly series. Which is weird because the telly series was based on MA’s book.

I thought some characters were realistic but was disappointed with Aunt Lydia.

I think the book will make a better tv series than book weirdly

I agree that TT was much more of an 'easy read' than THT. I wonder if that is partly because it was chronological? It also seemed more 'plot driven' than 'detail driven' if that makes sense?

In THT you saw detailed snapshots and had to fill in chronology yourself, whereas with TT we had chronology but not much detail.

You could definitely flesh out the book to a good TV series (or 7 ).

I really enjoyed it but I do feel it's a much lighter read than the original, probably to appeal to a bigger audience, including people who haven't/won't read the handmaid's tale but enjoyed the tv show. Aunt Lydia played a very long game, and I believe she always intended for Agnes to be an aunt, on account of who she was. She kept her close and safe at the hall for a very long time. She probably deliberately proposed Judd as a potential husband, knowing that Agnes would be horrified at the prospect and seek her help. I too don't really understand why Nicole had to come to Gilead. It was terrific though and I loved that all the loose ends were tied up.

Why Nicole?

Maybe because she would feel more of a moral obligation to help because of her background, and be more trustworthy because of it?

She wouldn't be at so much risk because of who she was? The regime couldn't kill her if it all went wrong?

It probably also helped persuade Agnes to help?

I too questioned why Nicole had to come back and why June hadn’t been able to see her during her childhood. That didn’t stack up at all.

Also queried what really happened with Becka. I’m torn between suicide or murder by Aunt Lydia to ensure complete confidentiality.

Do you think Lydia had Nicole's adopted parents murdered to cut her ties and to radicalise her?

I think either murder or suicide are equally plausible for Becca. She knew she wasn't getting out, and she had lost faith in gilead.

It's possible that June paid an occasional discreet visit to the store to see Nicole, just not often enough for her to recognize or remember her. I think Becka sacrificed herself. I am not sure she would have had the stomach to carry out some of the Aunt's duties, particularly in relation to the Handmaids. And she had no one in the world really, once Agnes was gone.

Completed. ((Hannah, Nicole)) Becca is an angel (maybe perhaps true evidence of a divine providence?!) enjoyed.

Felt at times, too great adventurey - Frodo & Sam fleeing Mordor but in a wholly female narrative. The heavy weight of the one ring to bind them being the micro dot film...?! 😆

I thoroughly enjoyed it but thought quite a lot of it didn't feel realistic.
I find it hard to believe that the Commanders would arrest a bunch of professional women, torture them, pick some out to be aunts, and place one in a position of that much power. Were there really no true believers that they would trust more? The people running the revolution were fanatics, and yet none were suitable to be aunts? I can believe they'd recruit non-fanatical professional women like that but not that they'd have any real power.
Also thought there was no point to either sending Nicole either there or back, or telling Judd about it.
It felt like a lot of things and a lot of motives only existed to move the plot along.
One of the things that worked about the original book was showing how otherwise ordinary people can dehumanise and exercise extraordinary cruelty. That part felt lacking.
I still really, really enjoyed it and it was a very satisfying read, but it felt more like happy ending fan fiction than a real story.

I really enjoyed it but I do feel it's a much lighter read than the original, probably to appeal to a bigger audience, including people who haven't/won't read the handmaid's tale but enjoyed the tv show.

I do agree with this and whilst the original is a favourite of mine, I have also really enjoyed the TV series and got completely invested in that too, so I took the new book in the same spirit; it's definitely more like the TV series than the first book, but it was an enjoyable read for all that.

I find it hard to believe that the Commanders would arrest a bunch of professional women, torture them, pick some out to be aunts, and place one in a position of that much power.

I found that totally plausible - it's a fair nod to what happened to the supposed 'intelligentsia' in Maoist China for example. Use their abilities and labour for your own ends and then dispose of them. Bonus if some become true believers.

Never underestimate the arrogance and narrow vision of a fanatic. How many current regimes want to turn the clock back 500 years but are happy to use the Internet to do so?

Were there really no true believers that they would trust more?

Presumably they were only a subset of middle aged professional women- those who were unmarried and straight. Married women would have become Wives or Econowives and known lesbians and feminists would have been shunted off to the colonies.
The same later on, though- I’m sure young fertile women wouldn’t have had that easy a get-out- just say you’ve got a calling and escape to safety as an Aunt. I liked the parallel with becoming a nun in medieval times though. I’ve often been struck by how that could well have given a well-off woman the best chance to live safely and peacefully, compared to early/multiple marriage and the risk of pregnancy back then.

elQuintoConyo I have just finished it, have read THT but not seen it on TV and it made sense. That being said I probably could’ve done with rereading THT beforehand as it’s been quite a while!!!

On the flip side of that question - my DM has watched the TV programme but not read THT. For those who have watched the programme, do you think she’d enjoy The Testaments even without having read THT?

I think it's best to read THT first. It's a fairly short book, and it won't tell her anything new (it's basically Season 1) but it is shocking reading.

I loved Aunt Lydia's voice in the book. So elegant, so flinty and rational and intelligent and eerie.

But I am disappointed that June's storyline seems to be "she fucked off outta Gilead without her daughter, and lived forever. The End". It means I don't know if I have much interest in her storyline in the TV show. That's it? She leaves Hannah behind and goes? Pretty boring tbh.

I'm hoping they diverge and do their own thing but it does seem Atwood has essentially closed off all other endings for June.

Elspeth, I think the opposite. She has confirmed that eventually June went to Canada. She doesn’t say when, so she could have stayed in Gilead for most of the 15 year period. I think she’s deliberately left all that time for the tv show to fill in.

You see I thought it was heavily implied she'd been in Canada for years. All the "survived two assassination attempts" stuff. Obviously those attempts would have been in Canada - in Gilead they'd just have taken her away in a black van. No attempt necessary.

The stuff about continually getting photographs of Daisy sleeping but then always destroying them in case they "fell into the hands of Gilead" heavily implied to me that she was outside Gilead.

Also the noted absence of anything relating to her after Nicole's birth and the absence of any other child in the archives, despite being obviously quite fertile.

It certainly seems to close off certain avenues that fans have speculated for her journey for Season 4. It seems the only thing left for her storyline is to go underground now.

And June & Nick are still actively involved in Mayday. I think there’s plenty of scope there.

Agnes loved her adopted mother, it's possible that when June got the opportunity to flee she was intending to take her but didn't have the heart to separate her from the only mother she knew. Perhaps Aunt Lydia was instrumental in June's escape, and promised to keep Agnes safe. I really think this book complements the tv show very well, ongranary my dh and DD are hooked on the show and are both going to read it, although they haven't read the original. I love that we got Aunt Lydia's back story and I am really pleased that she was not a fanatic, but merely a survivor, albeit a ruthless and conniving one.

@ongranaryplease yes, I think she can easily go from the tv series seasons 1 - 3 to the Testaments without reading HMT. HMT is mostly season 1 and seasons 2 & 3 veer off and meets up with Testaments several years later. All threads from the TV seasons & books are plausible except Holly (Nicole) is now Daisy.