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Weight loss chat

A space to talk openly about weight loss journeys and challenges. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The truth about what you should really get from a personal trainer and their 'real' professional levels

83 replies

Exercise1Girl · 10/02/2009 22:15

I see a lot of confusion and uncertainty amongst women concerning using a personal trainer.

As I've been PA to one of the highest qualified one-to-one Exercise and Nutritional specialists in the UK and Europe for near on 20 years now, I know precisely what a 'real' one actually is, what should be delivered,at what level and to what depth.

So if you need some very straight talking, clinically factual, no nonsense advice on what's exactly what in personal training, please feel free to ask away!

OP posts:
Exercise1Girl · 10/02/2009 22:16

You'd be gobsmacked by what should be provided and what isn't, almost 100% of the time.

OP posts:
HecateQueenOfGhosts · 10/02/2009 22:18

is this free, no obligation advice and info, or directing for further help to a gym or something?
Don't want to sign up to anything by accident!

Exercise1Girl · 11/02/2009 01:22

Lol No Queenie..there's no catch at all.

It's straight, honest and (for which I make absolutely no apologies for) bluntly direct advice and totally free. I can promise you I certainly wouldn't direct you to 99% of the UK's 'qualified' personal trainers either!

Across almost all the board, the real professional weight and credibly expert significance of the title disappeared quite some time ago, when doing 2, 6 and 12 week courses started enabling people to call themselves one!!!

OP posts:
Exercise1Girl · 11/02/2009 01:27

I'll help whenever I can and if I get stuck for the right answer, I'll ask my boss! He's a veritable walking computer of advanced knowledge and expertise in Exercise, Injury and Nutrition.......

OP posts:
HecateQueenOfGhosts · 11/02/2009 07:34

So you are saying that most personal trainers have no clue what they are doing?

HandbagAddiction · 11/02/2009 07:39

I think you're making a rather sweeping generalisation here and I am also a bit alarmed about the blatent advertising of your 'boss' on another thread....

And before you ask - I am not a personal trainer.....

HecateQueenOfGhosts · 11/02/2009 07:54

Is this an advert in disguise then? I wondered if it might be

HandbagAddiction · 11/02/2009 08:17

There's another thread in this topic on 'how much do personal trainers cost?' and the op has a couple of similar sounding posts on there...

And anyway, whether the personal trainer is 'real' or not, isn't it just as important that the person using one is a) happy enough with that person that they are prepared to push themselves that little bit further to get results, b) enjoys the sessions as that will promote well being and a sense of achievement and c) believes they are getting value for money because they can actually see real results.

This is maybe a very simplistic view, but surely personal training is one of the areas where you can actually tell if it's working for you as you lose weight, change body shape, improve fitness and well being towards your final goals. So provided that is happening...and you're enjoying yourself, I really don't see what the issue is?

SalmonintheLiffey · 11/02/2009 08:22

I did YMCA fitness training courses and they were tough. I have a clear idea of what it takes, but I bailed out of attempting to do it for a living, as I felt, cynically, realistically, that not being tall, blonde, more than just averagely attractive etc, I would struggle to command TOP rates. It's a very image-driven kind of industry.

I might have studied physiology at uni before I even picked up a YMCA book but I don't think I fitted the profile.

People want physical perfection when they are paying £40 an hour. It's a bit like flicking through Vogue. They're only 30% listening to what you actually say, and 70% taking in the visual experience of having a personal trainer.

IMVHO

Nontoxic · 11/02/2009 08:31

Unfortunately, Salmon, I think that generalisation only applies to female trainers.
The blokes you see in the gym are all shapes and sizes, and the guy I went to a while ago was lovely, but no Brad Pitt.
Whereas the female trainers always seem
to be real head-turners.
Who is Excerciser's boss? Is he the guy who has an online fitness forum? If so, I've seen one or two of his posts and he did seem really helpful and switched on.

SalmonintheLiffey · 11/02/2009 10:24

It'd be quite normal for personal trainers to have to offer the first session for free, and then when client's appetite has been whetted, and the delicious image of yourself in a size 10 bikini is in your mind, get the client to block book ten sessions.

I'd say mothers on maternity leave are a good group to target. They have only one child, (ie, sleeping in a buggy, no older child saying I'm bored), maternity pay and money still in the bank, and shock horror, they can't zip up their size tens and the baby is now 6 wks old!

Wouldn't surprise me if this is a marketing campaign of some sort!!

HandbagAddiction · 11/02/2009 12:53

No Exercisers boss is not the guy who has the forum....

Exercise1Girl · 11/02/2009 15:22

Well, that's quite a mixed reaction and let me clear up the points succinctly.

A. My boss has nothing to do with me being on Mumsnet, which I did for my own distraction and engagement, so advertising my boss is not on any 'thread' of any description and it's not some veiled marketing campaign either, so you're way off target there Handbag.

B. My boss doesn't have any forums at all.
Being 'happy' with a trainer can be all very well , but there's a lot more required than that.If you push yourself without the precise physical analysis required beforehand, the 'real results' you see in the immediate sense, could well have set hidden physiological problems in motion and you'd never be aware of it at the time.......until, often quite a long time afterwards, but often long enough to not associate those aches or 'probs' with the pushing you did originally. That.... is certainly an 'issue' worth being aware of.

The term 'personal' in personal training is a lot more than just working with one person, face to face and being the centre of their attention. Personal training must be truly personal in the wholly professional sense and from just the aspect of Exercise Biomechanics, if it is not, then it can steadily, little by little actually damage you long term and you'd never realise it was going on.

It's called 'sub-clinical micro-trauma' and it develops until you know about it and is then called 'clinical' damage.It is often caused by being given the 'wrong' exercise prescription, which is unsuitable for that unique individual. When it does happen,both the trainer and the client are usually unaware of the origin!!

Again ladies, this is not a veiled ad or campaign, as the boss certainly has no need of me 'touting' for him on Mumsnet. He's in Oslo assessing personal trainers at the moment and not due back until Saturday. I will never mention his name as I'm advising you here on the 'real' Mckoy and you'd all be surprised at just how little training , some veeeery high profile 'personal trainers ' have behind what you see,

I have an Hons 1st Sports Science degree and did a talk at a Rotary club in Hampshire on precisely the subject of personal trainer credibility. It was no surprise at all that the 7 people there who used personal trainers, had received no Range of Motion Test of any description and when I asked some questions, four of them were doing more or less the very same exercises, exactly the same way and there was an appreciable difference in height and build!

And by the way.....I am not for hire, so its not a campaign for me either, before more conclusions are jumped to!

A 'real' Personal Trainer must be able to finely analyse the personal Biomechanics of any individual and through the results, produce exercise formats that will not sub-clinically; damage that person and allow them to progress safely, without any hidden 'costs' developing under the surface. That...is one of the proper definitions of the 'personal' in personal training.

Vast amounts of people only get 'supervised exercise' instead, applied without any pre-analysis at all, which renders them much more susceptible to the possibilities of hidden, steadily increasing problems taking place.

A real personal trainer is quite simply an expert in Exercise Biomechanics,Injury and Nutrition.

All three must be at a very accomplished level, as in develop, heal and nourish the body and also allied exactly to the precisely differing unique physiological/nutritional boundaries that each person has.

All learning is obviously a very good thing, but lets 'get real' here. In just one of the areas alone...say Biomechanics, just how long do you think it takes to become expert in such an involved science? To enable the trainer to fluently analyse the way his or her client positively moves, bends, stretches and reacts to some exercises and negatively to others.

To then assess the large and small variations in that person's fully comprehensive flexibility levels, head to foot and match them to the ROMS ( Ranges of Motion)of the appropriate exercises. That's just one area I'm referring to, never mind advanced injury and nutritional expertise as well!

It takes literally years in just one area alone, which is why 'real' Personal Trainers are so few. If you speak to any number of your friends who've had, or are using personal trainers, just ask them if they had a 'ROM Test (Range of Motion)before they did any exercise at all and if so, how long it took?

A 'real' one takes a little over an hour at least. If they didn't get one at all, then the personal training is not 'personal' and any fifty other people who were overweight or needed to tone or need to shape up, could be given exactly the same exercises in exactly the same order at exactly the same level of demand. Supervised exercise done on your own isn't personal training.

Your first session with a 'real Personal Trainer last around three hours and 'real' ones don't do freebie taster sessions.

You have a body composition test which requires you to observe some pre-conditions 24 hrs before the test, such as food, drink and exercise limitations, including having your period affecting the calculations.

Credible body composition testing methodology is not found in Argos, such as stand on scales, hand held gadgets and plastic fat calipers. 'Real' personal use something called Bio-Electrical Impedance units.

You should fill in a Health and Nutrition Questionnaire, which needs to be at least 6 pages of A4 to contain all the necessary topics such as Allergies, Glucose Tolerance, Stress Levels, Immune Function etc, etc. My boss' questionnaire is 10 pages and every topic requiring answers is a necessary matter.

Then the Range of Motion Test, to discover head to foot, how you uniquely move, bend stretch, stride, rotate and turn etc, etc, which takes an hour or a little over depending on the problems that manifest themselves as being in play. They're happening, often without the person's knowledge, but betrayed to the trainer's eye by the way they move and they're often so subtle,it's only when they're pointed out by the trainer that the person sees and appreciates what's actually happening.

The questionnaire answers are discussed in depth and the person takes away a diet diary to religiously keep for one week. Everything taken in, in liquid and solids over that week requires precise recording, including the times they were eaten and drunk, as unique differences in individual metabolic rates makes this timing process very important.

That's how a first meeting with a 'real' Personal Trainer takes place and what expert personal training really means.

OP posts:
HandbagAddiction · 11/02/2009 18:24

Wow - I must have touched a nerve!

Here's the thread where you mention that you can see photos, a testimonial and an article written by him about 'looking for a personal trainer....

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/big_slim_whatever_weight_loss_club/695798-How-much-do-Personal-trainers-charge

That may not be his direct website but surely 'marketing' all the same....

HandbagAddiction · 11/02/2009 18:27

Oh and one other thing confuses me a little - if you are so clear that you are not marketing for your boss, are not a trainer yourself and state so strongly that 'real trainers' are so few and far between and therefore probably cost too much for your average person to have one - what's in this for you?

Exercise1Girl · 11/02/2009 20:42

The boss' primary concern is quality control. A credo shared by all his support team and myself.

Over the last 20 years I've seen lots of people buggered up by 'qualified 'personal trainers' so you haven't 'touched a nerve' so to speak, but only prompted a breakdown of what searching people should safely and professionally receive.In it for me, is more people knowing the real truths and less people taken for a ride by personal trainers, intentionally or otherwise.

Also, good trainers don't cost the earth at all and a really huge number of people in London for example ,charging people upwards of £50 per session for the dramatically limited expertise and qualifications they possess, is absolutely ridiculous....but how are those people to know what's what, as all they see is a 'personal trainer ' qualification presented to them!

The boss does free consultation clinics all the time, to educate people on the quality and safety of what they should be receiving and he has no idea at all that I've joined Mumsnet

I promise you, that he doesn't need me to covertly 'push' him on here either, his diary is very full and just for the record for you about 'costing too much', his clients pay £45 per session. This is very sane and very realistic and it's what all the real ones charge or closely thereabouts.

Incidentally, there are now 31 'real' ones in the Uk at the last count in November last year.

His website is 99% guidance and totally unrelated to advertising him as we his support team send out guidance advice to people all over the UK. Virtually all his business is now verbal referral, but the website and general stiuff has been on there for ages and markets 'real' personal trainers everywhere.

I am not knowledgeable enough to be a 'real' personal trainer despite having a good Sports Science degree,so that gives you some idea of what's required and what you should expect when retaining one.

Incidentally Handbag, please tell me where on Mumsnet exactly do I mention that you can see photos, a testimonial and an article written by him 'looking for a personal trainer? Thanks...because I can't see it anywhere.

OP posts:
HandbagAddiction · 11/02/2009 21:22

OK - so I got the 'testimonial' bit wrong and I apologise for that. But you cannot claim you didn;t mention his photo or the articles he has written when you said this on the thread I linked to in my earlier post.and I've copied this directly from that link...

"Alan assesses them too; in this country, Europe and Scandinavia and is called as ?Expert Witness? in litigation involving their ?mistakes? having been in Exercise, Injury and Nutrition for 40 years!

If you want to know how a 'real' one really operates when he/she first meets you, go to www.headtotoebeauty.co.uk and on the homepage you'll see my boss' photo, with 'a truly extraordinary personal trainer' caption under it.

Click on his photo and then read his article' Looking for an Advanced Personal Trainer'."

By the way, you still haven't answered my other question. I really don't get what you're expecting to achieve from your posts if it's not marketing related. I could understand if you were after data or information for a thesis maybe but you're making a considerable effort to state / justify quality and the case for 'real' trainers for no apparent gain - so what is it?

mckenzie · 11/02/2009 22:21

I hope none of my clients are reading this . They'll all sack me!

SalmonintheLiffey · 12/02/2009 09:36

You dont' have to have a sports science degree to be a 'real' personal trainer.

I'd say the YMCA Tottenham Court Rd alone* is churning out at least 50 fully trained personal trainers every year. Maybe more.

So I don't know what you mean when you say there are 'hardly any real personal trainers'.

You have God complex!! you think you're better than the others!

*Personal Trainer course has ten modules and they are all incredibly tough. If you think that a person can all of those modules and not be a personal trainer, what are they? a plumber?

Exercise1Girl · 12/02/2009 10:46

Over the last 20 years at my boss' elbow, I've really come to understand by seeing first hand, what can happen at the hands of personal trainers.....'qualified' personal trainers at that.

At odds as it may seem, it's not a downer on personal trainers all over the place,as I realise that most of them, to best of their belief, provide a personal training service. This is more of a clarification as to the harsh realities of professional levels and what they should really be.

The majority of people who retain a personal trainer regard them as experts in Exercise and Nutrition, who is going to help them to overcome their particular problem and usually restore some of their self confidence and sense of wellbeing into the bargain.

Achieving this successfully, without (regardless how inadvertatantly) damaging the person in small, but significant aspects is a specialist task.

Enjoying the process, getting on well with the trainer , who encourages you to push your boundaries etc, is all well and good. However, it's simply basic fundamental stuff, which every exercise person or instructor everywhere should be implementing anyway, so this should be a bog standard result for any exercising client and not some sort of bonus only gained by using a personal trainer.

A real Personal trainer has very high levels of technical expertise, biomechanical observation capabilities and injury experience, along with significantly polished levels of nutritional knowledge.

None of the personal trainer organisations produce such an individual, as the level of expertise required in all three
foundational elements of Exercise, Injury and Nutrition is totally impossible to achieve in the training times all of the training companies provide in their training courses.

Such certificates and diplomas are only the very basic beginning of the learning curve, and it's also very unfair indeed that the willing and eager people who pay out for the courses are not enlightened beforehand, as to just how expert you really have to be, to be a 'Personal Trainer' in the fully safe and efficient sense.EG.

In 2007 my boss was retained to go to a town in Buckinghamshire and chair a meeting of 38 people, who had taken a little under two years to meet up/get to know of each other.They had all used fully qualified personal trainers, all trained by four organisations very well known in the industry and well publicised as 'the business' in training expertise for their students.

Some of the 38 clients had achieved satisfactory results, but physical 'problems' had appeared some months down the line. Some of the others had straight forward poor results, whilst the others had discovered they's been using the same material and stretch routines, although they had different requirements in addition to being different shapes and sizes of both genders. Hardly personal training.

To cut a long story short, the boss asked for no trainer names be disclosed to him and just to be allowed to perform his functions of testing the clients and studying the advice they'd been given.

It took a couple of weeks for him to finalise everything for each person individually, and he then submitted his report. The outcome was that 11 of the people sued for personal injury and all 11 were successful by late last year; settling out of court.

Very rarely do clients of different personal trainers meet and talk to each other in depth about what they're doing as these people did, but if more did, the evidence of the lack of personalisation they're specifically paying for, would be very plain to see.

As the account we have of it on file says at the end. This is just one area in Buckinghamshire.

Again, its very willing and keen people that simply don't get sufficiently in-depth levels of training because training companies make more money if their courses are shorter, but of course that's Ok because they're labelled 'intensive'!!

However...would you let a dentist with only 12 weeks training try to give you a root canal filling?

The letter we, on behalf of the boss, send out to advise people about this situation, is sent out to folk from the North of Scotland to Cornwall, so there's no personal marketing or client pursuit aspect about it for him at all, as in my talking about these matters on here.

We hear about and actually see the results of unpersonal, personal training all the time, so we religiously maintain an educational posture to let people know what they should really expect from their personal trainers.

If they go ahead that's fine, as it's a going in 'with eyes wide open' scenario as and they are now 'informed' people.

But knowing the 'what's what' of it, means that not only are they fully aquainted with the factual realities of what is actually available to them in knowledge and expertise, but if the person concerned is trying to charge them £50 an hour for what are average qualifications, they now have the 'savvy' to say, sorry mate you're overcharging for what's on offer, how about £X per hour instead?

If you think a trainer charges too much and you're au fait with the realities of their presented package to you, you have the power to validly negotiate their fees.

The boss would be absolutely furious with me if he suspected for one tiny moment, that I was talking to ladies on here with any form of ulterior motive other than to provide some guidance in these matters. Regardless of how long I've worked for him, I'm not quite ready to receive my P45 yet!

The only 'gain' is a greater understanding of personal training realities and hopefully as a consequence, less of the folk in Buckinghamshire around. That's all, but I consider that a really good 'gain'

OP posts:
Exercise1Girl · 12/02/2009 11:09

Ok Salmon

A Sport Science Degree certainly doesn't make you a personal trainer,you're perfectly correct there, because it doesn't have enough analytical Biomechanics in it and it doesn't have Nutrition in it , which is why I'm not one.

But I have much more knowledge than the YMCA course as a result of that degree, but I'm still not a 'real'Personal Trainer.

The YMCA course you're talking about doesn't remotely have the biomechanical depth in it, or the nutritional depth in it to make you a 'real' personal trainer either.

It will start you on the road like all the other courses, but the facts remains the same I'm afraid.

For proof for yourself.

Ask any YMCA personal trainer to fully analyse a client's static and dynamic Ranges of Motion head to foot and produce a list of what exercise forms are specifically positive for that person's physiology and which are not, including the specific motion range variations that are causing that person's daily postural shifts as they move around in normal motion?

You'd be disappointed because it would be too advanced for them, but those elements are a part of the full Range of Motion Test that needs to performed by a Personal trainer on their client, to know exactly how their bodies react and behave under exercise conditions.

Nothing wrong with the YMCA course at all, as it's a competent enough starting point. But 'tough' modules don't necessarily equate to advanced modules, so with all due respect, the intensity definition is entirely a personal.
take.

NB. Certainly not God though Salmon...now that IS advanced!

OP posts:
SalmonintheLiffey · 12/02/2009 18:08

That was just too dull to read, sorry, but I caught the last sentence.

The YMCA personal trainers are perfectly entitled to call themselves Personal Trainers.

And you're taking all the joy out of fitness if you think that you need to understand every neuron firing to instruct a client on the correct positions for exercise.

It isn't rocket science, there's a lot to know, I know that, but I also know that it's not on a par with being a surgeon fgs!

HandbagAddiction · 12/02/2009 21:13

at Salmon....

Exercise1Girl · 13/02/2009 09:39

If you'sd seen the long term physiological consequences of inexpert personal training at first hand, you's understand more clearly, exactly why it has to be so refined to be truly personally safe.

I can assure you, the many dozens of people I've seen in the flesh, would gladly have had their particular brand of exercise 'joy' more closely attended to properly.

Total and absolute understanding is totally necessary for total and absolute perfect safety and the 'joy' of exercise experienced without future question marks being very possible...and usually the case.

And I'm afraid, the commment that it 'isn't rocket science' is a reflection of just how little you grasp, as to how much there is to learn and know about the human physiology, both static and exercising.

The YMCA folk have certainly done a recognised personal trainer course and can call thermselves personal trainers, by the present national standards, but there are personal trainers and Personal Trainers.

Real

OP posts:
SalmonintheLiffey · 13/02/2009 10:31

Wow, well, I was going to go for a run tomorrow morning, but now I don't think I'll take the risk!!

Ps, I did biology and human physiology at college (long before I did the YMCA PT course) and lol at the idea that Human Physiology is on a par with rocket science.

The vast majority of the population is unable to grasp the mathematics and physics of rocket science.

Here's what you should do exercisegirl, bunk off from your Maestro-PT-boss for half an hour, have a latte with a flake and a marshmallow on the side (not de-caffeinated) on his time, flick through Now or Look magazine, have almond croissant and then stroll back to work. Get the bus back, don't walk. oh and have a ciggie at the bus stop. And a red bull, and take a fistful of diet pills.

You make me want to be unhealthy for some reason.