Is being Obese an illness?

[agel]

Yes or No
Im really not trying to start an argument. I want to understand what people actually think/know/believe about this.

I am obese and am trying to gain some sort of control over my eating through therapy at the moment. I’ve tried diets and exercising that do work but long term I don’t seem to be able to change my lifestyle enough to keep the weight off. I hate living like this and how people treat me differently because of my size. My family don’t understand at all. My partner is not understanding and it’s seriously affecting our relationship in many ways. It seems unfair because I don’t feel I have much control over this. It’s actually very lonely being in this situation. I rarely mention the topic of my health or weight to others because pardon the pun it’s always the elephant in the room! But you can almost hear what people are thinking. I hate the judgemental looks and comments. I rarely go out now because of anxiety and panic attacks brought on by this situation.

I’m not debating, I am asking you to articulate your point, you just keep repeating its not normal.

I do understand what you are saying. I don't disagree that you may feel that this is what normal looks like for some people. My reply remains the same that we simply don't know what normal looks like for each individual.

Where does normal start anyway? Depending on the household in which you were raised you may never had had a chance to develop a normal appetite if you were fed high sugar, high carb, high fat foods from a really early age. Childhood obesity is now a global epidemic. I doubt any child who is obese will have a remotely regulated relationship with food, either physical or psychological. So where does normal begin in such cases?

Perhaps it's the use of the word "normal" to describe an appetite that in an obesogenic environment results in a person maintaining a healthy weight without any issues. It seems that the majority of people don't have that kind of appetite, as the majority of people (in the UK) are overweight or obese, about two thirds or so. So only one third of people are resistant to an obesogenic environment and have that kind of "normal" appetite.

You could say it's more "normal", evolutionary-wise, to eat lots when food is plentiful - as for all of mammalian history that would be a very sensible survival strategy. It's only in the last 50 to 70 years that those of us in developed countries have constant access to high calorie extremely palatable food.

On what basis are you saying that normal is struggling to make healthy choices? It's not if you train yourself to have satiating, filling, and nutritious food. You'll find that's what you go for naturally after some time and that the unhealthy Frankenfoods become regretful when you do occasionally give in to them (ask me how I know).

Isn't appetite based largely on context and environment? I can be full but if someone brings in a plate of puff pastry smoked salmon snack bites you can bet your bottom dollar I'm all of a sudden hungry. The normality is eating based on availability. In cavemen times they ate an entire animal when they caught and cooked it. They didn't know when they'd get the next, perhaps straight after perhaps 3 days later. Nowadays we have such a convenient array of unhealthy high calorie hyperpalatable foods on tap 24/7 and what do you know, people are eating them to the point of becoming overweight because they're available. Not because they have abnormally gargantuan appetites.

Edit: I quoted the wrong person. It was meant to be @Twiglets1

I'd say by the definition of normal being the majority, that eating that surpasses caloric needs is the actual norm in the obesogenic environment.

That's right the diet industry has grown up around my love of food & struggles to resist unhealthy food/constant temptation.

Oh but wait ...about 66% of adults over 16 in the UK are overweight or struggling with obesity. So maybe it actually is quite normal.

Yes it's clearly the norm. But I don't think that's what people mean when they talk about a "normal" appetite - they mean one where even in an obesogenic environment, people don't overeat and find it manageable to maintain a healthy weight without excessive effort. That's what obese people are always told is the norm and that we should be able to achieve just by willing it to be the case.

It's very difficult to stay healthy in an unhealthy environment. Hence only a circa 3rd manage it (not forgetting the percentage who.have eating disorders but are not classified overweight.)

@Twiglets1 there is a difference in the fact that 66% of people are overweight, therefore the normalisation of fatness in our society and an individuals "normal" appetite.

It seems a shame to get bogged down on this one point, but the causes of obesity are more complex than appetite control.

Yes I'd agree with you there. I think the problem is the implication in some posters' comments that 'normal' people struggle with food and therefore the obese people are just weak and need to learn to be hungry, learn better habits, all the stuff that gets vomited out across these threads all the time. And that leads to the 'WLIs are cheating' thing and so on...I do think that to understand obesity specifically as a disease neutralises that line of thinking that only heaps on shame and criticism with a dose of magical thinking that someone with lifelong obesity can simply pull their socks up and eat less, move more and stop indulging themselves and put up with a bit of hardship because they're equating it with what they feel like when they fancy an extra biscuit but resist it. When decades of fighting against a body determined to drag you into obesity is something different altogether.

i sinply can’t grasp why there is a conversation on normality, with two thirds of fhe population over weight or obese, yes it’s normal to have an appetite for more than you need, otherwise most people would be a healthy weight.

but that appetite is not healthy it’s leading to significant health issues and people clearly can’t train themselves out of it, what a simplistic view, which borders on the fat lazy and stupid rhetoric,

yes it’s completely normal to have a large appetite. So?

The appetite isn't large, it's dependent on the environment. And some people can train themselves out of it. It depends also on other factors such as your beliefs and attitudes around food and weight which were instilled at a young age. The obesogenic environment is unhealthy and people respond to it.

I do think though if you're finding the discussion that difficult to grasp you might want to consider whether it's worth you trying to take part.

It came across :) I was joining in :D

Huge lol. You embarassed yourselfand revealed your annoyance with that attack,

Many people have the same attitude towards disability and problems faced by the elderly.
That they are somehow exempt from it because their actions will prevent it. I’ve seen this too many times from too many people. If you’re not suffering there’s a relief in that, and because you’d never be so stupid as to be morbidly obese that you’re somehow protected.

Despite being obese basically all my life my attitude towards myself was that I was shit, backed up from attitudes around me. One of the people who was amongst those constantly pointing out how stupid I was developed cancer. Due to the life saving drugs she was on she became morbidly obese and joined the ranks of those being told condescendingly to eat less and move more. She understands now how facile that is, and how unrooted in any research. It’s just a stick to beat people with.

But who is saying it is not normal, it is completely normal, why would we wish normal when it is leading to societies Biggest killer, obesity,

Agree it's a shame to get bogged down on this one point so I won't talk about that again. But to be clear, I never said that obesity is no more complex than appetite control. Overeating is very complex indeed, though it can range from just poor appetite control, there are many other factors that could be at play.

No, it's not usually an illness. You choose to eat what you do. You choose to not be active. No one is forcing you. If you eat loads of calories and do not use those calories up, you're going to get overweight. You are aware of this.

What? It's a shame you're conceptualising the discussion in terms of attacks. I'm not so you're going to need to elaborate.

Ah Goody, adding gaskighting into the mix too. Everyone here can read your comment at 11.36

Do you think obese and fat people are stupid and do not know this? Do you not try to think beyond this? Any thought beyond the condescension? I somehow don’t think you’ve RTFT either but happy to be put right.

Some people do just read the OP and post without considering that a thread has almost 300 replies already!

Yeah I guess so but as a fatty I’m the lazy one 😆

I don't think it's ever worth trying to engage someone who thinks like this. You can't break through brick walls. The thing is, most people can conceptually understand that there can be something in a person's life where they try really hard and fail over and over again. I think everyone has something in their life that they find impossible even though another person might find it easy. And they will understand that all the willpower in the world won't make it easier for eg a dyslexic person to read without adjustments but never ever allow into their mind for one tiny second the possibility that obesity is more complex than 'greedy person eats too much and doesn't move because they can't be bothered to try'. Even though the WHO defines obesity as a complex, multifactorial disease, the internet will forever be full of people who know better than all the qualified experts that's it's actually really simple and easy but fat people are just too stupid to get it. I wouldn't waste your time trying to reason with someone like that!

It's really not helpful when people try to turn intellectual debate into mud slinging contests. I suggest you grow up. Thankfully nothing you've said has made enough sense to me to register but we are trying to have a conversation about obesity and you're wasting space with your pettiness.