What should the government do to reduce obesity at the societal level?

[waistchallenge]

We're the fattest country in Europe and the upshot is what you see here: people posting threads in desperation about their weight loss struggles. I think we can probably all agree it would be easier to never have gotten overweight in the first place and to never have had to go through these weight loss efforts and experiences.

Apart from the sugar tax, I cannot see that the government has done much, if anything, to reduce obesity in this country; it's higher than ever.

I'm asking here because we all have experience of this to be on here, what-if anything- should the government do to reduce obesity in this country? What would have helped you? Or is it all just ultimately a question of personal responsibility?

The thing is ‘It’s ok to be fat’ can be taken several ways.
‘It’s ok for me to stuff myself with junk food whenever I feel like it.’
’It’s ok for an employer to make it impossible for an employee to take a proper meal break’
’It’s ok that some people live in fresh food deserts with no realistic possibilities for exercise’

We’re not going to get anywhere as a society at dealing with the problem if we JUST focus on changing the first view. Absolutely people need to take personal responsibility, but employers and government also have a responsibility in directing working conditions and policy.

Not all of us talking about health work from home, have gym memberships or have a peleton. I can't afford a car so I have to walk. The bus is too expensive. I have chronic health conditions that require heavy duty painkillers on a daily basis. There are some things I can't control but I can control what I choose to eat within my limited budget. I could take my children to McDonald's (on the bus as not one near us) and spend £10 on bus fare and £20 in McDonald's. Or I could use that £30 to feed us for a week. I owe it to myself and my children to be as healthy as possible and I owe it to them to feed them nutritious food.

@BarrelOfOtters like fuck is it ok to be fat? Look at this thread. You think we can't sense this seething, judgemental, repulsed superiority from people in real life?
How many fat people are there on love island?
Yes there may be fat presenters now but they're still the butt of all jokes (excuse the pun) think Alison Hammond, James Cordon, Matt Lucas. They're not seen as sex symbols, intelligent, ambitious although they almost certainly are. They're the funny fat friend type we have seen on television since it's dawn.
How many people are openly attracted to fat people? How many thin people stand on the podium in Love is Blind and say 'god I hope they're fat'.
You're talking bollocks.

@LegoTherapy ok so break down that £20 you spend on healthy food and how you manage to buy it in your area without a car?

Exactly this. I’m assuming those who say it’s considered ok to be fat these days have never actually been fat, because if they had they’d know that you’re judged every day for it. That people think you’re greedy, lazy, stupid and lack self control. That thin people think they’re inherently superior to you, just because they eat fewer calories.

On Saturday I saw Sir Ian McKellen playing Falstaff. It occurred to me when I returned to this thread that 'fat shaming' is nothing new and Shakespeare knew it didn't help at all.

@NotOverYouOcelot I said £30 but I did t say that's what I do spend. I said I could take them to McDonald's on the bus for £30 or feed them for a week. I walk to the local Asda to buy things and get a Waitrose delivery every 2-4 weeks. I share that delivery with my mum so we split the delivery cost and split a bag of potatoes or any offers to avoid waste and maximise on the offers. I'd have to work it out properly but I generally buy:

Potatoes
Butter
Celery
Carrots
Apples
Bananas
Grapes
Lentils
Greek yogurt
Frozen fruit
Butternut squash
Frozen broccoli/peas/sweetcorn
Cauliflower
Cheese
Oats for porridge, biscuits and other baking
OXO cubes
Herbs
Flours
Seeds
Part baked rolls (because I haven't perfected home baked ones yet)
Chopped tomatoes
Tomato purée
Garlic
Onions
Cheeses

Some things I buy weekly like fresh veg and fruit and soup rolls, some less than once a month like lentils and frozen veg. I make my own bread and pizza bases and pasta/pizza sauces, cakes, puddings and biscuits.

My point was that £30 cost to me for a McDonald's would be better spent on healthier food that I make at home. I'll work out later what I could actually buy for the £30.

That thin people think they’re inherently superior to you, just because they eat fewer calories.

Or not even eating fewer calories but get away with eating the same calories.

I've been at both ends of the scale, getting down to BMI 18/19 in my twenties and being smug about it- as it was relatively easy then to be very slim, though it did take a lot of exercise and control to be that lean for me instead of BMI 22 which I maintained easily. Why couldn't other people do it? They were just lazy or didn't prioritise their health enough.

Then got up to BMI 32 when I was 40. Certainly not due to being lazy, but feeling very stressed and trapped in a job/line of work, money worries, relationship worries, child worries, very tired/insomnia, ill, not able to exercise, hormonal stuff, endometriosis, depression, using alcohol and food as a crutch.

It has made me very sympathetic at least and not such a nob about it, and hopefully able to give helpful advice on here to people going through the same. I'm more like BMI 26 now at 48, fit and well, but still struggling to get down further to normal BMI and maintain it. But if I can be overweight as someone really into food and nutrition and exercise and pretty intelligent and privileged then god help anyone else really.

Yes, I have been a healthy weight for most of my adult life but am now overweight for a variety of reasons specific to me and my life situation. I am no worse of a person than I was before, no less intelligent, no more ‘greedy’ or ‘lazy’. I also have a six figure salary, pay a fuck ton of tax, have private health insurance (although the only thing I’ve needed to see a GP for in the past 5 years is a nasty case of sinusitis) and educate my children privately so I don’t think I’m more of a drain on public resources than anyone else, at the moment. I’m just a bit fat.

Everyone is saying "excluding medical conditions of course" but then acting like that isn't a very real factor and continuing to judge. I was a size 8 my whole life save for the period on steroids, save when I was a size 6. Is highlighting that "not taking personal responsibility"? Vast numbers of people are prescribed steroids. Yet I never see handwringing about the devastating impacts they can have on people's weight and health.

So much more comfortable to look down on people and pretend it should be easy. Rather than appreciating our good fortune if we find it easy.. I don't know anyone who is happy being fat, even if they joke on the surface.

This isn't really about people on steroids, is it, though? No-one is including people with genuine medical conditions that cause weight gain or the side effects of prescription drugs when they're talking about the obesity problem in this country.

Exactly, when I was pumped full of steroids for a life threatening condition I faced jeers from strangers, "well meaning" advice from ignorant acquaintances and stupid jokes from colleagues "ooh at least it got up your step count" when a meeting was moved. I could barely move my legs due to the neurological condition I was fighting, getting up my step count was definitely not what I was meant to be doing.

But people would far rather sit in judgement, because it makes them feel better about themselves

But loads of people are on steroids. Why shouldn't we have a voice in this?

What about things like binge eating disorder? Do you think that’s a medical condition in the same way that anorexia is, or is it different when the condition makes you fat rather than thin?

Well, you are having a voice by posting just like everyone else on here. Nevertheless, surely you can agree that it would be illogical to centre discussion about reducing the country's obesity problem on a small subset of the population with largely unavoidable weight gain due to medical issues?

Quite. Weird how binge eating is seen as something someone can control but anorexia is met with sympathy and, from some quarters (in my experience as an anorexic) even admiration

When you’re in the street (or on an online forum) judging fat people, you have no idea whether they have a medical condition or not. Whether they take medication that has a side effect of weight gain or not. Many anti depressants have weight gain as a side effect for example, which is one of my ‘excuses’. So it’s ok to say ‘excluding those with medical conditions’, but when you’re looking disgustedly at fat people you don’t know if they’re part of the category that you are ‘of course’ excluding.

I think you underestimate the number of people who this includes. I’d say pretty much all is due to mental health reasons - poor diet and lack of exercise or a very frequently linked to mental health and becomes cyclical.

Not illogical at all. Because this thread is full of nasty judgements and that isn't helping anyone.

And it's utterly shit to fight a devastating health condition and realise everyone's also judging you because of your size.

So many people are fighting battles we know nothing about. Judgemental, "it's easy/just tax them" type stuff isn't going to ever get to a solution

I agree with this.
I'm 32 and a lot of people around my age, and a bit younger and older do not know how to cook. And I don't mean throw pasta together or whatever, I mean they don't know how to create a lovely healthy meal from scratch which fuels a reliance on processed foods.
So I think cooking lessons in schools, colleges, unis, even work places could be very beneficial.

When you’re in the street (or on an online forum) judging fat people, you have no idea whether they have a medical condition or not.

@HungryBeagle I'm not judging fat people, either online or in person. Nor am I "looking disgustedly at fat people". Indeed, I was a fat person, very recently. I'd be grateful if you'd not ascribe something like that to me baselessly.

It was a general ‘you’, aimed at all the judgemental people on this thread. Not you in particular, as I do not know who you are.

It also creates a vicious circle of dependence on convenience foods. Because people don't know how to cook, when they do try, things take much longer than they do when you know what to do. Hence all the moaning about Jamie's 15 or 30 minute meals on MN! If you know what to do, then his recipes do generally take either 15 or 30 minutes. If you don't know what to do, it will take much longer. Hence resorting to ready meals/convenience foods which are easier/quicker (and in many cases, probably tastier!)

I agree, and there's also the matter of recipes glibly saying "add a pinch of ......." or a teaspoon of "......." which stuffs people who don't have a shelf of herbs, spices, and other staples, meaning that they have to buy extras that they may never use again.

Likewise recipes that use unfamiliar terminology such as "saute" or even "simmer" if you've never heard the word before. Yes, I know, easy to Google, but if you're in the middle of cooking something, you don't really want to have to start googling for things!

I do a bit of cooking from scratch, and enjoy it, but sometimes the recipes themselves aren't particularly well written and simply don't lay out, step by step, in "noddy" terms exactly what to do, and when to do it. There's so much which has to be guessed, or timings worked out yourself, which can just make something that should be simple into a stressful time.

Same with TV cookery programmes which are often heavily edited so you don't actually see the entire process in "real time", and important aspects are often edited out. I always found the old style cooking programs far better as they tended to show the full process and only cut out the "no action" bits, i.e. when they put something in the oven, they'd bring out "here's one I prepared earlier", but you don't actually miss any stages.

Thank you @CassandraWebb - this thread was making me feel utterly worthless, and as if I don’t deserve to live.