What should the government do to reduce obesity at the societal level?

[waistchallenge]

We're the fattest country in Europe and the upshot is what you see here: people posting threads in desperation about their weight loss struggles. I think we can probably all agree it would be easier to never have gotten overweight in the first place and to never have had to go through these weight loss efforts and experiences.

Apart from the sugar tax, I cannot see that the government has done much, if anything, to reduce obesity in this country; it's higher than ever.

I'm asking here because we all have experience of this to be on here, what-if anything- should the government do to reduce obesity in this country? What would have helped you? Or is it all just ultimately a question of personal responsibility?

Exercise makes you hungrier and less active for the rest of the day.

I don't find that to be the case at all. Maybe it depends on the type of exercise you do and what you eat before, during and after. In my case I rarely do eat before going for a decent walk - a sort of intermittent fasting - then have a homemade sandwich during it and we've weaned ourselves off having a cake with tea afterwards. It's fine, anyone who is at all overweight is carrying loads of fuel with them, you just have to get it being used!

Well, when you cycle you actively eat more. Like I said pastries, cakes and stopping for cooked breakfasts are all normal for cyclists. I was cycling behind another cyclist eating a multipack of croissants the other week, he discarded the last one uneaten by the roadside though 😔

Me neither. I actually find myself wanting to eat more healthily when I am exercising more.

Yes it’s a worthwhile comparison

I did see a campaign centred on obesity with similar messaging to the cigarette ones, although of course one campaign won’t shift much

When you look at the measures taken for addictive tobacco it takes a lot

If Japan has had success with their policies would people on this thread be up for that?

I think Brazil have tried but looking at the stats I don’t think it has been successful. One of the government’s policies on banning advertising of certain foods was challenged in the courts so I think didn’t come into law.

I think when you first start exercising you might feel hungrier but your body soon adapts. Fitbits can be dangerous for this because they let you know how many calories you have left to eat including the calories burnt through exercise. I ignore that figure and go off the actual calories allowed for the day. I'm walking 50 miles a week and am not hungrier than if I have a week where I don't walk as much for whatever reason. My body has adapted to it and on weeks I don't walk as much, like in the school holidays, I gain weight. My usual food is porridge for breakfast, Greek yogurt and berries for lunch, vegetable soup of some kind and two soup rolls for dinner. I might have homemade pizza or pasta or a quorn burger whatever I fancy that fits into my calorie allowance of 1550-1650. For snacks I would usually eat a tunnocks caramel wafer but have given up chocolate for Lent so now have fruit instead. Some days if I'm really hungry I will eat my exercise calories but it's rare. Usually hormone related. According to my Fitbit I've burnt 2100 a day on average this week. I know it's not particularly accurate but it's good enough for me to see what I'm using compared to what I'm eating.

If Japan has had success with their policies would people on this thread be up for that?

The policy of a yearly waist line measure at work and weight loss support if necessary? Would it be free? It actually sounds quite supportive - like someone cares. I don’t think the NHS could afford it. I saw the channel 4 programme around the world in 80 weighs and I thought the group exercise at work looked quite good too - a bit of team bonding. But I guess lots of people would hate that.

@LegoTherapy are you dieting, because eating c1600 calories whilst walking 7 miles a day sounds like you would lose weight?

I think the difference is that we have moved further to the right and are more dominated by neoliberal ideology than we were 40 years ago.

The thing I find interesting about the Japanese measures is that employers were fined for having overweight staff. They recognised, in their long hours culture, that they were the ones with the most power to affect how people spend their time and what access to nutrition they have during a large part of their waking hours.
We already accept interference in what we do from our employer because…. well, that is what employment is: you give me money, I let you boss me around. It’s not like the government bossing you around, which puts people’s backs up. It means you don’t need to interfere with what’s in the shops near the office that sell junk food, you can still buy it if you want, but the employer had damn well better provide a workplace canteen offering cheap healthy food if he doesn’t want to be fined for having loads of obese staff. And if you want to work your staff so long they will have no time to exercise, it will cost you money. And the employer is closer to the employees than a civil servant in a distant office and better placed to figure out what interventions will actually work for that specific group of people.
I can’t see it happening here. But it was very clever.

I think the government can only tinker around the edges and real change will only come about with a massive culture change.

McDonalds recently opened a 3rd restaurant within a mile in my town. Within that mile there is also:
Harvester
Burger King drive through.
Costa drive through.
Local bakery drive through.
Greggs.
Frankie and Bennies.
2 Pizza Huts, one take away only.
All you can eat carvery.
Posh pizza place.
Scottish tapas.
Smashburger.
KFC drive through.
Tim Hortons drive through.
Costa drive through.
Another Greggs.
Subway.
Nandos.
Chippie.

There are 150 places on Just Eat that deliver to me. A couple are healthy like sushi and ramen, a lot are groceries but the majority are junk food.

I can only see things getting worse in terms of obesity.

@Springingtosprimg I'm trying to lose some more weight, yes, but not dieting as such, just eating more healthily. I replace toast for breakfast for porridge about 18 months ago. I have yogurt for lunch instead of oat cakes or a bagel or similar. I do have a bagel sometimes but not regularly. I eat soup more often than not for dinner. I don't snack like I used to and try not to eat after dinner at 5-6pm. It's a lifestyle change more than anything. I walk those miles through necessity not for fun although I do enjoy walking everywhere.

I guess one benefit of living in the sticks is that we only have one place on JustEat that delivers to us, and it’s rank! So far less tempting to get a takeaway. We can’t get Deliveroo or anything like that. Usually it’s easier to cook than get a takeaway.

Massive taxes on the unhealthy food to subsidise the healthy food.
I know for a fact I wouldn't buy the upf frozen junk and crisps and chocolate multipacks I do if they were even just £1 more.

Takeaways/fast food companies are absolutely everywhere as they have the money and means to pop up wherever they like, councils don't want empty retail units and need to provide jobs so they rarely refuse. Not sure how to fix this.

The thing I find interesting about the Japanese measures is that employers were fined for having overweight staff.

That would e a strong incentive to lose weight!

I also feel that we, as a society, need to stop seeing overweight models as normal. They are not and such models should not be normalised.

Takeaways/fast food companies are absolutely everywhere as they have the money and means to pop up wherever they like, councils don't want empty retail units and need to provide jobs so they rarely refuse. Not sure how to fix this.

How about self restraint?

Taking personal responsibility?

If we stopped buying such unhealthy junk food, these sellers wouldn't exist!

I'm in agreement!

Yes, restraint and personal responsibility would resolve the issue. But that hasn't happened yet and isn't likely to happen in the future. We can't just sit and watch things get worse and do nothing. We need to look at what has changed, why it's getting worse and what can be done to reverse it.

Years ago there wouldn't be countless cheap fast food ships on every street so maybe there needs to be a limit on how many are allowed. Maybe UPF needs to be taxed to the point where it is very expensive and that tax money used to make whole ingredients very cheap.

I don't know what the answer is but I do think that the government should do something.

Third time I’ll say this but the Japanese have their waistlines and weight measured every year and interventions are made if you fail, e.g. you are sent to a dietician in the first instance. Yes companies are also fined eventually.

But their attitude is totally different to ours. It’s not about what the company or government does for the individual but more about what impact the individual has on society. The idea that a Japanese person becomes a burden in terms of health or contribution would not sit well.

Can we change our mindsets here? Only if there is a huge government campaign- which the right wing press will slam - and active encouragement to change at every level: workplace, NHS, schools, restaurants.. I can’t see it happening.

I haven't RTFT but for me, the biggest thing they could do is to ensure people aren't so tired all the time that food and exercise are put way down the priority list. We have computers speeding up the pace of work but instead of this meaning more leisure time, everything is expected instantly and we're expected to be available 24/7. We have people living in mouldy, unsafe homes and hotels without safe food storage and cooking facilities, people working full-time in need of benefits and food banks. People are exhausted, stressed and hungry. It's an absolute disgrace and an utter failure of government.

Yes, restraint and personal responsibility would resolve the issue. But that hasn't happened yet and isn't likely to happen in the future.

It certainly won't change if we continue to allow the normalisation of obesity. Why are companies praised for modelling obese models? Why are companies not being penalised for that? Or even be penalised for employing obese staff? Like in Japan, we've got to make it socially unacceptable to be obese!

I think when you first start exercising you might feel hungrier but your body soon adapts.

For one thing, you should gain more muscle. We started daily walks during lockdown, my legs got less plump and more muscular. There can be a 'virtuous circle' - get fitter, you can do more and your metabolism generally improves whereas calorie restriction without activity might impair it.

People are busy and tired and do what is easy. If there was heathy lunch available at work than I would eat it. What is easy is pre made sandwiches with mayonnaise that comes in a van so I often have that. And there is the daily resisting of temptation to have a chocolate bar or crisps at the same time.

If there was a gym on site with exercise classes and a culture of being able to go along part way through the morning I would probably do that too.

But their attitude is totally different to ours. It’s not about what the company or government does for the individual but more about what impact the individual has on society. The idea that a Japanese person becomes a burden in terms of health or contribution would not sit well.

Yes, there's a strong sense of personal responsibility as well as a stigma to being overweight, so people try hard to avoid becoming fat.

Same here, and I’m always amused when people on here say things like: “Europeans have better diets” or “children in Europe are better behaved”. Where in Europe exactly? Germany? Poland? Portugal? Europe is not one homogenous place.

*People are busy and tired and do what is easy. If there was heathy lunch available at work than I would eat it. What is easy is pre made sandwiches with mayonnaise that comes in a van so I often have that. And there is the daily resisting of temptation to have a chocolate bar or crisps at the same time.

If there was a gym on site with exercise classes and a culture of being able to go along part way through the morning I would probably do that too.*

There are a lot of "if there was..." here.

How about taking a healthy packed lunch with you?

How about walking part of the way to your office? Or going for a 20 min jog after work?