What's your opinion of the recommended dietary guidelines?

[Watchkeys]

I wonder how people who are trying to lose weight feel about 'the healthy diet' that's recommended to us, and whether they generally feel that it is, actually, a healthy diet, in terms of ensuring that we get the right nutrients.

I'm a PT, and have my own views on this, but I'm curious about how people feel about it generally, and what knowledge people base their opinions on, re nutrition.

Exactly. Turns out we're on the same page after all.

So many studies being posted here are based on association not causation. It doesn't demonstrate, let alone prove, that anything causes or affect anything. It just says that they happen at the same time.

It's not strong data if they're talking about association. It simply indicates that more research needs to be done to ascertain causation.

The US did some research on conscientious objectors, wouldn't be allowed now, but it tell us about calories.

Long term observation is how most things like cancer/ diet links are researched. You are not allowed to prove dairy does or does not cause cancer in humans, it is unethical. Twin studies are about as good as it gets, Tim Spector's not Mengele's.

And how the heck is anyone going to do a double blind randomized controlled trial of long term diet?
https://ec.europa.eu/research/participants/data/ref/fp7/89847/research-food_en.pdf

You are not allowed to prove dairy does or does not cause cancer in humans, it is unethical

That's interesting. Not allowed according to who? Why is it unethical?

And yes, it's hard to research. But there is research, there are RCTs on many, if not all of the items noted on this thread, there are meta analyses of those RCTs. So it's not that the reliable studies have been too hard to do, it's that they're not being taken notice of, when they go against the official line.

Because the experiment would be 'if we give these people lots of dairy do they get cancer?', the result would either be: No or 'oh fuck we've given people cancer'.

Giving people cancer would be generally considered unethical.

Sorry, thought you were making a comment on dairy, rather than general research methods. My mistake.

Maybe you could write some new guidelines for the WHO or the UK or whatever @Watchkeys.

What's the point of this comment? Just a little jab?

It's a genuine suggestion. You don't like the current guidelines and don't think they are evidence based so you could write your own.

There's a lot of people more qualified than me trying to do just that, @AutisticLegoLover Theirs' is the research I read.

Who? What are your qualifications out of interest?

None. Why? Do we need qualifications to read research and have an opinion?

Can we just stick to the topic please, rather than asking personal questions? Thank you.

You don't think we need fibre?

I think you need to pick up a book or five and learn basics before you get wound up over the eatwell guide.

I’m sorry if I’ve missed it, because I’m not trying to antagonise, I’m genuinely interested in this subject - but what is all this research you read? You keep talking about it, but where is it? What studies, what authors, what scientists?

And also, what makes you value their research or evidence above that of their peers? Genuine question.

@coronabeer good questions there!

@Watchkeys you stated in your OP that you are a personal trainer so I thought it had some relevance for you to mention it but I am mistaken obviously. I also thought personal trainers would have some qualifications but again I am mistaken so this thread has been helpful from that point of view.

Looked up dietary guidelines for countries with different dietary cultures.

China has a food pagoda, 5 levels, with more food to be consumed from lower tiers

1. Cereals and tubers, including legumes; 2. Vegetables and fruits; 3. Fish, poultry, meat and eggs; 4. Dairy, soybeans and nuts; 5. cooking oil and table salt.

Sugar and alcohol not recommended at all; drink 7-8 glasses of water a day

Ghanian guidelines - chosen at random, had no idea before looking them up:

1. Eat a diverse and varied diet from the six food groups every day.
2. Eat a variety of fruits every day.
3. Eat a variety of vegetables every day.
4. Eat a variety of legumes, pulses and nuts every day.
5. Eat a variety of animal-source foods every day.
6. Use healthy fats, oils and oily seeds in moderation.
7. Eat a variety of whole/unpolished grains, cereals and tubers every day.
8. Eat less frequently, foods and ingredients that are high in sugar, fat and salt.
9. Be physically active.
10. Read food labels and nutrition information.
11. Keep food safely and eat safe food.
12. Drink water regularly.
13. Limit alcohol intake.

Basically, not dramatically different from the UK guidelines. Are all these governments being duped? Or is it more likely that the overall scientific consensus points in the same direction?

That's so interesting @coronabeer. I can feel myself getting sucked down the rabbit hole of international guidelines tonight!

Denmark guidelines

• Eat plant-rich, varied and not too much
• Eat more vegetables and fruit
• Eat less meat – choose legumes and fish
• Eat wholegrain foods
• Choose vegetable oils and low-fat dairy products
• Eat less sweet, salty and fatty food
• Thirsty? Drink water

Seems to be a theme here

Peru

• Choose and enjoy the variety of natural foods that are locally-available everyday.
• Reduce the consumption of processed foods to protect your health.
• Protect your health avoiding the consumption of ultra-processed foods.
• Add colour and health to your life, eat fruits and vegetables every day.
• Strengthen your body and mind eating one animal-source food every day (eggs, meats, offal, fish and dairy).
• Dont miss legumes, they are tasty, healthy and can be prepared in many ways.
• Protect your health, avoid weight gain by reducing the consumption of added sugar in your meals and drinks.
• Take care of your weight by consuming rice, pasta and bread in moderation.
• Avoid high blood pressure reducing the use of salt in your meals.
• Be healthy by drinking 6-8 glasses of water every day.
• Keep your body and mind active and alert, practice at least 30 minutes of physical activity every day.
• Prefer home-made meals and enjoy them in company.

@Itisyourturntowashthebath

Thanks. I wonder if there are any countries with significantly different guidelines (genuine question - I don’t know)? Now, it may well be that some of the guidelines may change over time - and if evidence suggests they should change, then obviously that should happen. But it suggests to me that the overall weight of evidence currently available suggests the UK guidelines are appropriate.

@coronabeer would appear that most countries are influenced by WHO

https://www.fao.org/nutrition/education/food-based-dietary-guidelines/regions/countries/brazil/en/

Make natural or minimally processed foods the basis of your diet

Use oils, fats, salt, and sugar in small amounts for seasoning and cooking foods and to create culinary preparations

It's a conspiracy! 😁

*Limit the use of processed foods, consuming them in small amounts as ingredients in culinary preparations or as part of meals based on natural or minimally processed foods

Avoid ultra-processed foods

The golden rule. Always prefer natural or minimally processed foods and freshly made dishes and meals to ultra-processed foods*

Sorry, pressed post too soon. Posted Brazil, because I listened to a podcast the other day, where it said that Brazil had been advising it's citizens to avoid UPFs for a good few years now.