Why We Eat (Too Much) thread 6

[TheLeadbetterLife]

Whoops, we let thread 5 get away from us a bit there...

I'm going to boringly copy-paste the previous thread opener, because it's too hot to be imaginative.

Welcome to thread 6 of discussion, encouragement and advice inspired by the book Why We Eat (Too Much), by Dr Andrew Jenkinson.

The basic principles of this "diet" (it's not one in the traditional sense, as it's meant to be a permanent set of changes), are as follows:

Cut out ultra-processed food

Massively reduce sugar, carbs, refined flours and wheat

Eat a wide variety of vegetables, whole grains and fruit

Eat full fat dairy and other healthy fats like extra virgin olive oil

Improve the ratio of omega 3 to 6 by eating greens, fish, eggs and grass-fed meat, and cutting out ultra-refined seed oils

Important lifestyle changes include getting plenty of rest, relaxation and sleep, as well as taking a moderate amount of exercise (or more, if you like that sort of thing).

You don't need to count calories (in fact, you shouldn't), though it may help to count carbs or glycemic load, at least to begin with, until you get the hang of it.

Some of us share recipes by following each other on Copy Me That - www.copymethat.com/recipebox/the-leadbetter-life/6661160/

As well as the book mentioned in the title, the principles are similar to those espoused by the likes of Rangan Chatterjee, Robert Lustig, Tim Spector and Michael Mosley.

There are many successes on this thread, and the main thing is that we are aiming to make permanent, sustainable changes to adjust our weight set-points downwards.

Join us!

I have five stone to lose having yo-yo’d over the past 40 years and ended up fatter each time. I now have high cholesterol and the dr wants to put me on statins. I really want to try this WOE but feel ive lost all confidence in my body, it’s ability to manage food and my own ability to meal plan and eat sensibly. I switch between thinking I’ll try Fast 800 but not actually doing it and then giving up and eating food I don’t even like. I notice that I’ve become so unfit - breathless if walking and talking, a bit stiff, unable to bend down. I read the book a year or so ago but didn’t try it properly. I actually don’t eat much UPF apart from the odd sweet or biscuit binge - most meals are home cooked and we rarely eat white carbs - so I’m feeling a bit despairing about whether this would work for me. Any advice or encouragement would be welcome!!

Hi @Janeaustensquill welcome! I saw you on that other thread about insulin.

I was a bit blown away by the experimental findings that the insulin theoretical model doesn't seem to be supported by the experimental evidence. Still, there does seem to be evidence that low carb diets work.

It made me think about why this plan is working for me and others, given we don't restrict the quantity of what we eat.

We can't really know I suppose, but I think it must be some combination of (1) the low sugar (2) the removal of high omega 6 oils and (3) always eating when you are hungry.

It doesn't work for everyone, we have had a few people on the thread that didn't see any weight loss, but there are also several who have lost multiple stones.

Most people who it does work for see an early initial weight loss of a few lbs, followed by a very slow stop-start loss over many months.

I suggest you could try it fairly seriously for maybe two weeks and see if the scales shift to begin with? Let us know if you have any questions about anything.

I would have said in the past be sure to read the book too as it makes sense of what we are doing and helps you understand how to make good choices, but if the insulin model is false then a big plank of the theory is wrong or at least over simplified...

Good luck!

Link to the other thread in case you guys haven't seen it

To think too few people understand the role of insulin with regards to weight loss? http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/4655638-to-think-too-few-people-understand-the-role-of-insulin-with-regards-to-weight-loss

Thank you @Aria999 - I saw you on that thread and was impressed by your cheese eating!! Yes the insulin results are strange and seem contrary to all the recent stuff I’ve read about how our bodies work.
I’ve decided to give it a proper go - so had a 3 egg omelet with tomatoes, cheese and olive oil for breakfast (with an apple skin) and oats, chia seeds, blueberries and Greek yogurt for lunch. I feel pretty full and satisfied. It was a massive portion for lunch though - I can eat huge quantities of Greek yog and fruit so will need to
watch that.
Dinner will be baked chicken and roasted veg.
I do tend to use cold pressed rapeseed oil for roasting - I’m still not clear whether that’s ok or not.

@Janeaustensquill olive oil, butter and lard are good.

Cold pressed rapeseed oil is kind of ok, not as good as the above but better than other oils.

Maybe experiment with olive oil instead?

If it's a cost concern you can actually strain and reuse olive oil a couple times.

Not really cost, @Aria999 - I really like the taste of it and that it doesn’t smoke when you roast with it. But for salad dressings etc I’ll move to olive oil which I haven’t eaten much recently. What about duck and goose fat for roasting? I thought olive oil isn’t good if it’s heated?

Olive oil does have a low smoke point. I have seen a couple of things about o3 in oils breaking down at higher temperatures but I chose to ignore them 🤣

Duck and goose fat are fine.

I use lard and clarified butter for cooking, olive oil for salads, mayonnaise etc.

Have just read this on realsimple.com

”Make sure you are buying true extra virgin olive oil. Look for unrefined 100 percent extra virgin oil, a recent harvest date, and a dark bottle. Organic is ideal, but it does come at a higher cost.
Extra virgin olive oil is the most stable oil to cook with and can be heated as high as 400 F (deep frying occurs at 350-375 F).
Even when heated past its smoke point, virgin olive oils produce low levels of harmful compounds due to the high antioxidant content in the oil.
Polyphenol antioxidants still remain after heating. Starting with an oil extra high in polyphenols (over 250 mg/kg) is recommended so that even more remain after heating.

Hurrah!! I always used to have low cholesterol. Can’t be sure but wondering if transitioning to using rapeseed instead of olive oil over past few years has had an impact on my levels…🤔😲

@Janeaustensquill that's interesting I didn't know that! I will tell DH (our main chef)

Though in fact we use something specifically marketed as cooking olive oil which may have similar properties

@Aria999 I am down 2lbs today!! It was interesting how having permission to eat a decent portion of proper food was really filling and satisfying. Didn’t have dinner till after 8pm - not ideal but normally I would have been grazing all afternoon. Feeling hopeful!!

@Janeaustensquill that sounds like a promising start. Fingers crossed!

Well done @Janeaustensquill that's a great start. I think restricted time eating is definitely making a difference for me. I have lost ten pounds since August with this woe. I have plateaued this week and last but I'm ok with that because I know it will go in the end. I've got at least another stone to go, according to the BMI charts it should be more but I can't picture that. I'd love to be a size 14 again but I'm realistic.

I dipped into that other thread about insulin but it wasn't as friendly as this one! My goodness, the 'calorie deficit is the only way ' people are rather strident.

Thank you, @MerelyPlaying I’m away on holiday now - not so much control over what I can eat but have been quite calm and stopping when full. Feel like I have achieved a mindset switch - early days but encouraging. I have tried TRE in the past and it didn’t help me with weight loss but I do think it’s healthy to have a good fasting period. I’ve been pleased and surprised that I’ve managed 3 meals and no snacks for 5 days now which I feel v pleased about!!

Hi everyone. I'd love to join you all, if that's ok! I've just finished reading (well, listening,) to the audio book whilst on holiday. It has Blown. My. Mind. So much of it makes sense to me. I have skim read some of the past threads (definitely want one of the cult dressing gowns referenced earlier on 🤣). Like others, I'm a bit dubious given that Jenkinson doesn't seem to reference any if his actual patients who have had success with this WOE, but it does seem to make sense, so I'm going to give it a go!

I find I'm much more likely to stick to things if I have a 'plan' so whilst sat by the pool I've drafted out a 4 week meal plan to help me keep on track (and stop me sticking a pizza in when my brain can't think what else to make).

I do have a few questions, if nobody minds?

1. Does anyone else eat this way with small children. I have a 5 and 7 year old. Reading this book makes me so motivated for them not to experience the lifetime of diets and weight issues that I've had. Does anyone have any tips for getting young children on board?

2. I hope nobody minds me asking, but what successes have people had with this diet? I'm approx BMI of 27, and would like to get back to a BMi of somewhere around 22 - does that sound realistic? I know Jenkinson recommends 5-10% then maintaining for 6 months, so I'd have to do it in a few phases.

Hearing any success stories of what others have lost/kept off would definitely motivate me along. I don't know why I feel so sceptical at the moment 🙈

Hi @Dunkindonuts8 welcome!

This thread is quite a good source of anecdotal evidence supporting the plan but there have been a few people who dropped off because they didn't see any results.

Try it for a few weeks and see if it works for you?

I didn't have all that much to lose comparatively speaking, I have gone from 138lbs and bmi of 23.7 to 128lbs and a bmi of 22. But I felt horribly fat with a stomach overhang and now I feel super slim.

Not having bread is a pain especially at lunchtime but otherwise life is full of good things to eat and I am happy.

I kind of view most upf supermarket food as not really food now and don't feel like eating it. This morning I found myself looking at the cookies I keep for DS and thinking'i could eat that but it's not really food is it, don't think I want one actually'.

I haven't put the kids on this woe (nearly 7 and nearly 3). DS6 lives almost exclusively on bread and fruit. DD2 won't even eat bread except for croissants. We rotate round the small number of things she will actually eat (chicken nuggets, omelette, bacon, pizza). With fruit. They don't eat veg. I encourage them to eat yoghurt for breakfast but at present they are both firmly in a Cheerios phase. I try not to overdo the upf snacks and I talk to them about different food groups etc.

Thank you for your reply @Aria999. I'm definitely going to give this a go. I wonder why it didn't work for some and if there's a running theme to those it didn't work for? I was thinking I might combine it initially with calorie counting to reassure myself I'm not going crazy with the calories 🤣

I'm glad you said your children aren't currently eating this way. After reading the book I had a sudden guilt that I was failing them and setting them up for a life of obesity and health problems 🙈 I think I'll initially cut down on the upf snacks (we have a whole cupboard dedicated to them 🫣) and start offering fruit and yogurts instead.

I'm worried I'm going to struggle because I've never been a salad lover. Maybe if I force myself to eat the food, my tastes will eventually change? 🤞

I have definitely seen results, I've lost nearly a stone since starting this woe. I am combining low carb/high fat with restricted time eating, so not sure which of those is having the biggest impact.

What has really surprised me is that I am not feeling hungry, and not craving food. Sometimes I eat breakfast, sometimes I go through to lunchtime without eating anything - if you had told me a couple of months ago that I would EVER voluntarily do that, I would have thought you were mad! Of course I'm not a saint, I have slipped occasionally or work/social events have meant I have to eat later than I'd like. And I will be visiting family this weekend and no doubt eating bread, dessert and all the other things, but I feel confident that I'll be back on track next week. The biggest difference for me is not eating between meals.

By the way @Dunkindonuts8 I don't love salad either! The good news is that if you do eat it, you can have mayonnaise, salad dressing etc (some people make their own, I have gone on using ready-made mayo because I reckon a small amount won't make much difference). I think you have to make this work for you, so although soup isn't supposed to be ideal, I make and eat a lot of vegetable soup and it still seems to work for me. I'd try and convert some of your favourite meals to work with this, e.g. using whole foods, full-fat versions of dairy, and keeping the carbs low, and see how you get on.

Marking place

I think initially I'm just going to try and eat more whole and unprocessed foods, and then slowly become more strict. I really want to offer my girls a healthier diet so that's my main focus for doing this at the minute.

How long does everyone think it takes to regenerate the cells/for them to renew or adapt to the new omega 3/6 ratio?

Also, I know this is a processed food, but what are the thoughts on this? I can't imagine being without any type of pasta at the minute. I've eaten and enjoyed this before.

@Dunkindonuts8 if it's working you will probably see small results fairly soon. A couple of lbs down in the first week or two weeks would be a good sign.

Then weight loss is very slow, and it stops (sometimes for weeks) and then starts again.

For packaged food I normally feel it's fine if all the ingredients are foods rather than chemicals, iyswim.

Also I eat pasta about twice a week. You will work out what you can get away with!

I have also mostly learned to take small ups and downs seriously. If I put on a pound, it's normally not just bloating or a temporary thing, it means I'm doing something that's causing me to gain weight.

The last time was when I started having unsweetened applesauce on my yoghurt. Weight crept up. After I figured out what I was doing wrong, weight crept down again.

@Aria999 that's really helpful thank you. I've started reading another book now on the back of this one called "the diet myth". I feel so deceived about diet and nutrition! I dread to think what they'll be saying in 30 or 40 years about the 2022 diet 🙈

The thoughts about eating packaged food if it's all food and not chemicals seems sensible. I keep thinking, well they eat pasta in Italy etc 🤣

Scary to think that some unsweetened applesauce would be enough to upset the applecart, so to speak!