Why am I fat?

[Witch25]

Well the simply answer is that I need to eat less and move more. Right, easy as that. Yet if it's that simple then why is there a million pound industry around weight loss?

Most people who have a significant amount of weight to lose and who have no medical conditions that cause them to gain weight have probably tried endless "diets" in the past. Slimming World, Weight Watchers, Low Carb, 5:2, etc, chances are they have tried them all. And they have probably lost weight on them. And as stats show, a high percentage gain all the weight and more back again within a year.

I think overeating is a mindset. It is a condition that affects certain people and it is something that has never even had an affect on others who have never had weight issues. People who are overweight eat to excess of "bad" foods. It is an addiction like drink or drugs. Overindulging must cause people to feel good/get a high at the time or else they wouldn't do it. Overweight people eat because they are sad, happy, bored, lonely, having a good time out with friends, eating a meal with a partner etc.

Through following posts on MN I have seen how fat people are hated on here. Let's not dress it up, most posts end up being taken down because it turns nasty and abusive. The attitude is "don't come whinging to me fatty, just stop shoving cake in your pie-hole". Society as a whole dislike people who are overweight and studies have shown that they are passed over for promotions at work, ignored in a group etc. And yet even though there is a palpable dislike for people who are overweight, we see obesity levels increasing in the UK.

TL:DR
So I was wondering if we could have a discussion around the mindset that causes people to be overweight and what can society do about this? Should GPs be offering CBT rather than Slimming World vouchers?

"Nobody is forcing people to buy and eat nutritionally poor calorie dense processed shit. "

No, but it's much nicer (at least for some of us) so choosing it is natural.

Gwen just don't weigh yourself very often! I weigh myself once a month or so. Dieting obviously isn't working so try it 😉

No, couldn't go without weighing. That's how I became chubby in the first place - not realising it was happening until I couldn't fit into my clothes.

I think it's availability of food and our snacking culture. My grandparents' generation ate 3 meals a day with no snacks.

It's also very simply calories in V calories out for weight. Or low carb. Either of those work. You need willpower to stick to it.

boldfish Our grandparents had 'elevenses' which was a snack and they had 'tea and biscuits' which was a snack .

They weren't fat because they walked everywhere, did heavy duty housework\manual industrial work and didn't spend their time on computers.

They also weren't advertised at by the telly, media etc. so they didn't think that rubbish food is "natural' . Strange when it's exactly the opposite of 'natural'

@ppeatfruit I probably shouldn't have generalised - mine are perhaps a bit different as they don't ever snack! They also had desk jobs so perhaps they're an anomaly!

Definitely agree re the advertising and walking everywhere, they only had one car. They also did far more housework and gardening than me

I think it's a combination of modern day factors

• disordered eating is common among women/girls from a young age due to media and social pressure to be thin. This affects everyone - if you saw your mother not eating or binging or your friends doing the same.

• additives and sweeteners and food chemicals affect weight loss and metabolism - there are whole diet theories on this.

• unhealthy high calorie food is everywhere and cheap and easy to access. It's actually hard to buy an off-the-shelf sandwich that it less than 300 calories -you actively have to look for it.

• people get naturally get less exercise due to modern life technology - even lots of doors open automatically, escalators, lifts etc.

• people get less exercise in the course of the day because most modern jobs involve sitting down at a computer - gone are the days when the farmer is walking behind the plough.

oh - and alot of high fat food highly processed food is manufactured deliberately to have a great "mouth feel" and taste delicious.

boldfish Snacks can be nourishing.

Paper I agree about the foods that are full of chemical sweeteners (apparently they are more likely to give someone Diabetes type 2 than normal sugar. )

It's also the high salt fast foods, that are addictive too that don't help!

I"m a life-time fatty. My mum put me on my first diet aged 7 .. it was slimfast (dont judge her too harshly, it was the 90's). I remember the dinner ladies at school slipping me real food when they saw I only had a milkshake for my lunch.

I was on a diet ever since, and from that year onwards I reliably gained about a stone a year until I hit 19st 1lb aged 25 ... I'm 5ft 5.

Turns out dieting is bad for you.. who knew eh??

Anyway, I FINALLY got my weight loss underway last year and dropped 6.5 stone in 8 months (ish), just by stopping the diet mentality and treating all food as food, not as punishment/ reward. I completely reformed my mental attitude to food just by thinking to myself 'im not on a diet. I'm not trying to lose weight. This is just food'.. repeat ad nauseam.

At the end of last year some shit hit the fan and because I took my eye off the ball, I fell back into the food = friend cycle. I re-gained 2 stone in 3 months! I was furious with myself, but actually it just proved to me that with the best will in the world, if you have a fat mentality you're always going to struggle to keep your weight down, it's just a thing.

Anyway, I even investigated slimming world again in my panic to get back on the diet wagon and actually I"m now using some of the principles of it to get myself back under control. For example, I'm eating as much fruit and veg as I want, making sure all meals are at least 30% low carb veggies and using their "syns" (GOD I HATE THAT WORD!!) to restrict high sugar foods. I'm also limiting bread and dairy because I go mad on both left unchecked.

From my experience, it's our attitudes to food that have changed in the last 50 years. When telling people, particularly women, what to eat becomes a business and a lucrative one at that, all of us suffer.

Fanny Sorry but I DO judge your mum; We were bringing up our dcs in the 80s and 9os and there was no way we would've put them on a diet! A terribly counter productive thing to do. for you.

DH is still fat (has issues with food) because of his mum (and the nuns in his school) force feeding him His dm did it lovingly though, not the nuns!

Gwen not weighing yourself and eating like a horse is a clothes shrinking disaster waiting to happen! Moderating what you eat a little, start by cutting out snacks, and weighing once a month and being happy with a couple of pounds down is different 👍🏻

Gwen I'm so glad someone's brought up the tummy rumbling issue, I've never ever heard anyone talk about it! I often hear people say on the 5:2 they just don't eat all day and just "keep themselves busy at work", when I worked in an office environment I always made sure to eat something before a meeting to avoid the dreaded rumble You're right, it's ludicrous to find it embarrassing, but there it is.

Personally, I think it's not remotely surprising that we have an obesity epidemic on our hands: the hard-wiring to eat everything we could lay our hands on kept us alive for so many centuries, of course it's a struggle to overcome that hardwiring when, in the twinkling of an eye, we suddenly have more food than we know what to do with. The ups and downs of evolution.

This is a very interesting discussion.
I totally agree that 'diets' are incredibly damaging in the long term. I think it's because they mess with our ability to actually listen to our own body, create massive issues of guilt and give out mixed messages. We are constantly told that to lose weight we need to have more willpower, be a bit less lazy, a bit less greedy. But, by the same token, we are also given the message that we must build in 'treats' as deprivation only leads to failure. It's a very confusing message and doesn't really do anything to address the terrible relationship that many overweight people (myself included) have with food.
I also think it's further confused by the way in which food and particularly 'treats' are so embedded in social life. Being the only person to turn down cake or not have a dessert almost seems to offend others in the group. And there again, we are given the message that we deserve a treat...
I think the answer probably lies in trying to get back to listening to our own bodies (although I do appreciate that this is scewed due to the addictive nature of sugar) and eating non-processed home-cooked foods. I've often though that most people would struggle to get fat eating 3 balanced meals a day and no snacking. I find myself channeling my mum and silencing my son's moans of mid-meal hunger with the phrase "good, that means you'll enjoy your dinner!"

TheHounds The problem with only having 3 meals a day with no snacks is that our stomachs have to stretch to eat them. Esp. for children , better to give a hungry child a drink and or fruit and bread and butter than crisps or sweets though of course.

That means that their low blood sugar level doesn't affect their mood and doesn't result in over eating when they finally DO eat. It works for adults too which is why I recommend the Paul Mackenna way of eating it's more natural. AND IT WORKS.

"Gwen not weighing yourself and eating like a horse is a clothes shrinking disaster waiting to happen! Moderating what you eat a little, start by cutting out snacks, and weighing once a month and being happy with a couple of pounds down is different 👍🏻"

But you don't know if your portions are the right size unless you weigh yourself. I think it's easy to start having slightly bigger portions and to think that's normal. I've also got into the habit of eating until I'm full, but have been reading recently that you shouldn't be totally full. I'm still struggling with knowing when I've had enough according to that. I used to think I should be full to avoid hunger/snacking later, but am not so sure now.

"when I worked in an office environment I always made sure to eat something before a meeting to avoid the dreaded rumble blush You're right, it's ludicrous to find it embarrassing, but there it is."

I didn't have breakfast as a student, but started as a junior secretary when I sometimes had to go to the big boss's office and go through the post with him.
I remember a friend at school used to move around a bit in her seat to try to avoid them. Anyone got any other tips?

"The problem with only having 3 meals a day with no snacks is that our stomachs have to stretch to eat them."

Why would the stomach have to stretch to eat them if they're not big meals?

Gwen I'm like a dog with a bone!! Honestly, it really has been that simple, 3 meals a day probs 250/600/900 ... that's probably the calories I naturally eat at each meal (cereal/sandwich and crisps/big evening meal) my BMI suggests I should eat around 1800 calories a day to lose weight. I suppose if you're not that big to start then it might not work. I'm never hungry, my tummy doesn't rumble and my digestion is ace. Trust me, I've tried everything, including surgery ... and this has been the most successful.

Gwen Iam referring to a large meal. If you go 5 hours between meals you will get very hungry and possibly eat more than if you had a small nourishing snack and drink between the meals.

After all in the old days we had 'elevenses' and teatime (I mean the tea and toast type of teatime) before supper\dinner. Most people were not obese in those days due to not many of them having cars and screens to keep them sedentary.

My food issues are largely focussed around my parents.

Dm is a serial (failed) dieter. She still tries various diets now, that never work, because she is sedentary and 65. It sounds awful, but her ship has sailed and I strongly believe she should focus on not gaining more instead of wasting the last years of her life striving to be a size 10. She’s probably a 16 now. There’s pictures of her very skinny when me and dsis were little. We grew up with points, syns, calories - never forced upon
us, but always around us. Then, interspersed with chocolate, clearing our plates, no guidance about healthy foods, sweets as treats etc and no exercise (just a non sporty family, we lived in the road our school was on etc, so never actually did much exercise). Mum would comment on our body shapes, not nastily, but matter of factly- she would say I had ‘rugby players legs’ for example.

It has taken me years to ingrain habits into myself that will help me lose weight. I’m not huge (Size 12-14) but I hated my body. I’ve had 3 dc which hasn’t helped. I have been a yo-yo dieter too. I have tried many diets.

I am currently losing weight steadily on a low carb/high fat diet. I have kicked my sugar addiction for the time being, (had sugar yesterday for the first time this year!) but I feel that this is going to be a lifelong project that will get harder rather than easier, as I become older. I need to get to my ideal weight and learn how to maintain it. Seeing my mum’s unhappiness is spurring me on. It feels so vain and vacuous to be so obsessed with it, but I need to be right now or I won’t do it. The thing that’s really really helping me is, finally, doing some exercise. We bought a treadmill, and fitbits for Christmas, and I can honestly say I am like a different person. My body shape is changing, I am sticking to my calorie controlled plan, and I am not cheating or bingeing. I get up each day and decide when I will run, and look forward to it.

I don’t really know what the answer is; my food issues are so ingrained, and always involve guilt, punishment, pleasure, addiction. I think CBT could be useful. I think SW can have its place, but it doesn’t really teach healthy habits, and consultants are varied in their approach, as are your peers in groups. If you end up in a group that loves the muller lights and saves all the syns for wine, you probably will end up worse than you started!

But you don't know if your portions are the right size unless you weigh yourself. I think it's easy to start having slightly bigger portions and to think that's normal.

I think the problem is that the average person's "normal" isn't actually "normal" at all.

What I mean by that is a normal portion size would be what is required to fuel your body for the activity it actually does. A human in a natural state (even 100 years ago - I'm not talking about cavemen!) would be doing far more activity that most of us do today because of the high level of automation in society - most transport, going up stairs, and a lot of manual labour is automated.

So a 'normal' portion size (ie. one to maintain an average person at a normal weight BMI) is much smaller compared to what your body biologically craves - because we expend far less energy. I mean if you think about it, it is really bizarre that most people in order to expend energy go to a boxed in room and run on the spot or cycle on a stationary bike and so on.

To put it another way, you don't see fat lions or cheetahs in the wild do you?

We are all going to hell in a plus sized bus.

Paper That's the reason I lost weight with Paul Mackenna and am maintaining, our resting guts are the size of a grapefruit!

If we eat slowly and mindfully we CAN control our weight. I don't count calories or weigh food (or myself) or eat low fat diet food . I go by my clothes and looking at my silhouette in the full length mirror!

We are all different though. Some people may not get on well with it I suppose.

Trying to separate personal reasons from general discussion. Was a normal weight for most of my adult life, with an annual 2 week diet. Overweight as a teen and dieted/ exercised. Was very ill in my early twenties and found that I could eat normally afterwards without gaining much weight. Had suspected CFS when 33 and thyroid was borderline underactive. Had a year when about 40 when I lost a lot of weight for no reason.Had flu like illnesses (reason on doctors note)
My initial causes of weight gain were swapping Ambien for an anti depressant and then being diagnosed hypothyroid (52 years old post menopause)
Based on my experience:
Prescribing anti depressants with no blood work
No evidence for this but dieting/ eating the wrong foods as a teenager. Norm at that time was 1000 kcals plus exercise. Almost all teen mags had diet blogs and it was fashionable to be thin. Went from a size 14/16 to a 10. Wasn't helped by a school doctor telling me to watch my weight! Mum had already put me on a "diet". Told grand parents to give me fruit rather than sweets but continued to serve up stodge.( cheese sandwiches and cake for tea) To be fair she did limit portion control and we had school dinners. Food at my grandparents was delicious. Both my parents and grandparents grew their own veg. Grandad had a green house and grew these amazing tomatoes. Could eat a bowl full of them. We would usually have salad and bread and butter when we were there.
Cooked for myself in the end eg poached eggs, peas , tomato Looking back I would have been better off on a higher cal diet and a goal of size 12. Gained a lot of weight back when cals increased. I think that food choices were a generational thing. My younger sister was thin but ate if anything more than me.